35 Whelen Loads

[truck driver]

Nosler load data gives a better B.C. To the 225 Partition than the AccuBond.
Is that a typo?

Good point. I have seen it both ways now. Either way though, the BC is plenty good enough to really get out pretty far. I have shot mine out to 600, dialing my drop of course and was very impressed with the groups I was getting out of mine.

I am right there with 338 Ultra. Having both the 338 Win Mag and the Whelen, they are the same animal for 95% of the hunting I do.

Scotty
If you could only have one ( 338 win or 35 Whelen ) which would it be?

 

[SJB358]

Scotty
If you could only have one ( 338 win or 35 Whelen ) which would it be?

Rodger, that is a tough one. My wife got me my Pre 64 338 Win Mag for an anniversary present, so really, the rifle means more than the cartridge in that one. But, when I had my original 338 Win Mag and the Whelen, I would take the Whelen 10 times out 10. The sentimental value of my current 338 Win Mag is what makes it more favorable than my Whelen, but overall, the Whelen is a touch more accurate and does the same work my 338 does. Plus, my 338 is a little heavier than my Whelen.

You mentioned twist, I would go 1-12 to handle every bullet you could ever want to shoot. 180-310's with ease. Also, a #4 would be okay, but it's a heavy barrel for humping the mountains. Myself, I would be a little more inclined to go with a #3, just to save weight. The rifle will be plenty heavy enough with that barrel. I would go 24" though, but again, I want as much as I can, and I have never been hampered with a 24" tube on a bolt gun.

 

[truck driver]

Ok we have a 1-12 twist and a #3 contour 24" barrel. The 1-12 I like but the #3 seems a little light considering the bore diamater will take a big bite out of it and I was thinking a 26" length. My 257 roberts is a 26" custom barrel and have no complaints with it. Both my 30-06 and 300Wby have 24" tubes and see no disadvantages with them and all my shot guns have 30" tubes and I hunt in thick cover with them with no problems.
I'm thinking out loud here trying to rationallize what I have in front of me to help me to decide. The biggest thing with rifle weight is to have it ballanced. I carried an M14 for 2 years before they issued me an M16 and after a week I was looking to trade it back for my M14, when I complained they gave me an M60 and told me to reach out and touch someone. So weight is not a big issue unless it gets out of hand.
Boy did I get of track.

 

[PJGunner]

"Is the Ruger the 77 RS model you were refering to?"

Yes. :grin:
Paul B.

 

[PJGunner]

With all the comments about which is the best twist rate,it started me to thinking. The first edition Hornady loading manual had data for their 275 gr. round nose for 35 caliber. That bullet was discontinued in that same year, 1967. Bullets early on when the .35 Whelen came on the scene as a wildcat were not of the quality we have today so possibly those 275 gr. bullets were needed to get deep enough penetration. Those old timers did not have the benefit of solid copper bullets like the Barnes or bullets such as the Nosler Accubonds and Partitions that give deep penetration. Maybe in today's world, unless one wished to go to one of the bullets heavier than 250 gr. the 1 in 16" twist is now sufficient. My Remington and Ruger .35 Whelens give more than adequate accuracy with every 250 gr. bullet I've tried with their 1 in 16" twists. My custom Mauser has a 1 in 14" twist and frankly is more accurate than the two factory rifles. It will also handle stouter loads than the other two. My pet load with the 225 gr. TSX for the Mauser is a bit too hot for the factory guns.
See what happens when I start to thinking. :roll:
Paul B.

 

[truck driver]

That's the whole idea Paul the more you guys think the more I learn and that's what I need.
What's the barrel lenght of your Mauser and does the chamber have any free bore in it?

 

[SJB358]

I will say this, my Remington has alot of "freebore" as I have alot of bullet out of the case in order to get .015" off the rifling. There is plenty of mag length as well.

If your fine with a 26" barrel, I think that would be sweet, but I think you'd do fine with a 24" also. I guess it depends on barrel makers, as some #4's from some companies are pretty heavy and others lighter. I would mess with the barrel weight calculator in order to see what you want as well. Some companies might not rifle a 35 caliber in less than a #4, but I don't know that to be a fact either.

Good luck, sounds like the gears are turning.

 

[truck driver]

They are turning Scotty and I got smoke coming out of my ears. I was thinking of going with a Douglas barrel since I've had good luck with them in the past. I'm still on the fence for the rate of twist. I was thinking 1-12 but turning towards the 1-14 since the .35 cal bullets offered are short and not elongated like the 338 or 30s from what pics I've seen. Also Douglas offers a stainless match grade fluted barrel that would help cut the weight down.

 

[billbam]

I went with a Shilen #3 1-14 at 23" when I did mine. It shoots the 225's & 250 Partition very good. I didn't see myself going with anything heavier than the 250’s. Stocked and scoped, it is just over 8 lbs. Weight and balance is just right. I was very happy with it after spending a week in Colorado hiking around. I think the #3 at 24" would still be fine. Good luck with your choice

 

[DrMike]

Mine has a 12 twist Hart barrel. It shoots heavy bullets quite well.

 

[JD338]

Keep in mind that the 35 Whelen is a hunting rifle so lighter contour should not matter all that much.
To me, saving weight would be bigger advantage. A 1:12 twist is what I would go with if I were to get a different barrel and a 24" #3 would be a great way to go.

JD338

 

[truck driver]

JD338
Thanks for your wisdom. I just didn't want a thin whippy barrel. My thoughts on the #4 was to have it fluted to hold the weight down and still have a ridged barrel. I'll have to look at a chart to see the different diamaters I may be missing something here.
Thanks for the pictures.

 

[gerry]

If going custom there are no downsides to going with a 1 in 12 twist. I have done 2 Whelen's both with the faster twist and been happy with both. I have also had 2 factory guns with the 1 in 16 and they both shot well, still have an NEF that is surprisingly accurate considering it is a cheap gun. The fast twist would allow you to shoot the 270 gr and heavier if desired and still do great with the 200's. I would think if you went with a Douglas 1 in 14 like you mentioned it would still shoot the heavyweights well.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the info Gerry.
I've been checking out the different barrel contours and weight on Douglas and E R Shaw's web sites.
One thing I did notice is that Douglas offers twist rates from 1-10 thru 1-14 where Shaw only offers the 1-14 twist for 35 caliber barrels. I've also noticed that the reloading manuals I looked at list the .35 Whelen twist rate at 1-12 in thier test guns.
Unless I missed something the Remington rifles chambered in .35 Whelen is 1-16 which is also the recomended rate for the .35 Rem. Conclustion on my part is Remington is set up to cut one barrel twist for both which makes for better economics for them and the same for Shaw.
I'm just looking at comparisons from 2 barrel makers and 1 factory brand.
I will go with the 1-12 just so I can shoot 300gr bullets if I want to and the faster rate will handle the lighter bullets also.
One more question I would like to ask is if the Ackely improved version really makes any gainable difference over the standard version. :?: I haven't seen and any data for this version.

 

[gerry]

Respected gun writer John Barsness has called the 35 Whelen AI the most useless of the Ackley Improved rounds since there isn't much shoulder to blow out. He has found at most you would gain 40 fps over the standard Whelen at the same chamber pressure. Remington factory loads have always been underloaded but Hornady, barnes and Nolser load them to the rounds potential, comparing the AI version to Remington's factory rounds the 35 AI would look much better. The 35 Whelen is capable of getting a 200 gr bullet 2800-2850 fps, a 225 gr 2700-2750 fps and a 250 up to around 2600 fps safely. You are most likely right about Remington and Shaw wanting to save money by going with the 1 in 16 twist. The reason I like the 35 Whelen is that it delivers great performance with reasonable recoil, shoots flat enough for most hunting, is a standard round so you can fit 4 or 5 in the magazine, burns less powder than magnum rounds and is just plain cool like the 7x57, 257 Roberts and rounds like that. It doesn't blood shot a bunch of meat on big animals like moose with tough premium bullets or heavy standard bullets like the 250 gr Speer either. I would like to try those 310 gr Woodleighs one day in mine too, could be interesting firing them in a 7 1/2 lb gun though If you do go ahead with the project we would love to see what components you end up picking and how it turns out.

 

[JD338]

I agree that the AI isn't going to give you much gain in the 35 Whelen.
RL 15 and a 24" barrel will give you the advantage, putting the 35 Whelen about 100 yds behind the 338 WM.

JD338

 

[truck driver]

I just composed a nice answer to you guys and when I posted I got the Banned For Life notice again and lost my post. I hate when that happens. Now I have to start all over.
Here goes---- It's diffinently on the front burner and will be a Douglas 1-12 twist 24" barrel. The action is undesided because a donor rifle needs to be found. I have no preference of manufacture since I like them all and own at least one of Remington, Winchester and Ruger brands.
I did put in an inquiry at Shaw for a price on one of thier custom rifles based on what I think is a Savage action with a Boyds Walnut Stock and spirel fluted barrel in matt stainless.

 

[PJGunner]

Truck Driverasked, "That's the whole idea Paul the more you guys think the more I learn and that's what I need.
What's the barrel lenght of your Mauser and does the chamber have any free bore in it?

The barrel is 24" and the throat is standard. As my next Whelen is going to be based on a Ruger #1, I can get away with a 26" barrel and the whole gun won't be any longer that a conventional bolt action with 22" barrel. 8) As my current Whelens have 1 in 14 and 1in 16" twists,I'll probably be looking at a 1 in 12" for the next one although a very good pen pal friend of my who lives back east has a Ruger #1B with 26" barrel (IIRC) and a 1 in 10" twist. :shock: He said it did a great job out yonder on a Newfoundland moose. Guess you can't argue with success. :lol:
As far as what action to do the build, my choice would be to chase down a J.C. Higgins M50 and do the build on that. They use an FN Mauser action so the barrel job would be all that was necessary to have a usable rifle. A better stock and Timney trigger down the road would be nice. One word of advice if you go that route. Don't shoot the donor. :roll: Seriously some of those Sears rifles can be damn accurate. One I have sits in a Butler Creek synthetic stock and shoots sub-MOA with not only my handloads but most of the factory rounds I've tried. I made my 7x57 build on one and it's a real sweetheart. A Mark X Mauser would work nicely as well and they have a fairly decent looking stock. Either can usually be found at fairly reasonable prices and therewould be a lot less work making a "nice" rifle from one of those compared to a full out conversion on a milsurp action. That's the way I'd go, especially if my preferrence was for control feed actions.
Paul B.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks Paul.
I'm not considering a Military action because of the machine work but the old JC Higgins was a Winchester M54 if I remember right and yea it would work the same as a Husquvarna, Interarms Mark X or any commercial rifle donor. And the 1-12 is the way I'm going to go because I think it will have the best of both worlds for light and heavy bullets. I would use the original donor stock until I could upgrade unless it had a nice piece of wood.
You said Sears did you mean Savage :?:

 

[orchemo]

I think about having a Tikka bored out to 35 cal.

JES RIFLE REBORING here in Oregon will evidentially re-bore a Tikka.

Nice stainless Tikka T3 with a wood stock in 35 Whelen. That would be quite the package. It might even have a 338 WM finding a new home.

Eric