35 Whelen Loads

[truck driver]

I think about having a Tikka bored out to 35 cal.

JES RIFLE REBORING here in Oregon will evidentially re-bore a Tikka.

Nice stainless Tikka T3 with a wood stock in 35 Whelen. That would be quite the package. It might even have a 338 WM finding a new home.

Eric

I've had muzzle loaders freshened out and .22s relined but never had a rifle barrel rebored.
What do they charge for this since it might be another option. Do they use cut rifling or button swaged. :?:

 

[PJGunner]

I think about having a Tikka bored out to 35 cal.

JES RIFLE REBORING here in Oregon will evidentially re-bore a Tikka.

Nice stainless Tikka T3 with a wood stock in 35 Whelen. That would be quite the package. It might even have a 338 WM finding a new home.

Eric

I've had muzzle loaders freshened out and .22s relined but never had a rifle barrel rebored.
What do they charge for this since it might be another option. Do they use cut rifling or button swaged. :?:

This fellow is supposed to be one of he better ones when it comes to barrels and reboring a barrlel. I have an Eddystone 1917 Enfield that someone made into a nice sporter but the two groove barrel has been ruined by corrosive primers and improper cleaning. I may have to run up to Prescott Arizona in a few months for a church youth program and if I do I'll be dropping by to have a talk with him. Here is his web site. http://www.cutrifle.com/ Just haven't quite decided whether to do another.35 Whelen or give the 338-06 a try. Guess it would depend on what the guy doing the work has to say. Anyway, he has prices for his work on the site so that should give you some idea.
Here for your information, especially if you can find one is the owner's manual for the Higgins M50. Will also work for the M51 which was just the same gun bit a bit fancier.


http://www.histandard.info/manuals/sear ... 3D150R.pdf

Paul B.

 

[nvbroncrider]

AI the Whelen and you not going to see a return. Fire forming plus the extra costs of dies and time just isn't worth it. I'd go a 35 Whelen or maybe a 338-06 both are very close. I went with a 338-06AI on a Pre-64 action Micky Supergrade stock 24" #4 Pac-Nor barrel. It's a legit 1" gun and I haven't shot it much or found a load I like yet. But it's a nice rifle. Weighs 8.5-9 pounds.

 

[gerry]

That link is for is Dan Pedersen he did the Browning BLR I used to have, it went from a 243 to a 1 in 8 twist 260 Rem. It took a few rounds to get it to shoot well but I had a bunch of loads that went under 1 inch the better ones averaged around 3/4" which I thought was great for a lever gun. He did a great job on it.

Paul how about a 9.3x62 or 9.3x64 instead of a 338-06?

 

[truck driver]

I'm loving it guys lots of input.
Nice looking rifle Paul. The 338-06 A square is interesting.

 

[nvbroncrider]

I'm loving it guys lots of input.
Nice looking rifle Paul. The 338-06 A square is interesting.

Yes and you get a better selection of bullets! That's what it came down to for me.

 

[PJGunner]

"Paul how about a 9.3x62 or 9.3x64 instead of a 338-06?"

No, I'd rather stick with the two I mentioned. I am kind of leaning toward the 338-06 for a very simple, or maybe it's a weird reason. I duuno? A cartridge that has interested me for some time if the .318 Westley-Richards. If you compare it with the 338-06, they're very similar rounds. The basic differesnces that I see are slight a difference in bullet diameter and case shape. I read about it in John Taylor's book African Rifles and Cartridges. He has some conflicting coments about the round but I doubt I'll ever get a chance to hunt anything really big and nasty. so I'm not worried ifthat 'is the way I decide to go.
Probably is push comes to shove it'll just be another Whelen. :lol:
Paul B.

 

[preacher]

I personally love the 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, but I like playing with Wildcats (the Improved are the easiest too.) The only time I've had no real improvement on velocities was in a 22" .280 AI ( barrel too short, should have been 24" min.) and in two 30.06 AIs, even with 24"bbls, very little gain. My and my SILs 35 AIs ( cut with same reamer) get fantastic velocities and accuracy. My barrel is a 22" factory Classic, and with 58gr H322 I get 2970 with the older 200X; 2600 with original 250X and 53.5 of BR2015; 2950 with the 58.5gr H322 and the 200 TTSX; 61gr R15, mag primer gets me 2750 with the 250 NP, 55gr of R15 gets me 2424 with the Woodleigh 310. I would need a 24" and "very" warm loads to do this or come close in the standard Whelen. Does it make any difference on game? I doubt it, ha. The extra speed does help stabilize the 310 in the 1/16" twist, I'm sure. I also get long case life ( I'm still using cases from original 35 AI , another Classic, from 1995! ) I can get even faster speeds that I listed, but then I run into higher pressure and diminishing returns. all the loads I listed give sub MOA if I hold my mouth right, ha. I also just love the looks of the sharper shoulder of an AI! I have had 3 9.3x62s, and in all three I had problems with headspace in some factory rounds. Shoulder was too undeveloped. I saw no need to fireform "factory" calibers, so got rid of all 3. Besides, my 35 AI does the same thing the 9.3x62 does, except allow me to shoot a cape buffalo with it in Zambia, ha. So, for me, the AI is worth it. If I had a 24" bbl standard Whelen, I'd make sure I had my hunting loads set up in once fired cases with the proper headspace as I am super anal on reliability, ha. I think with modern powders, bullets, at least a 24" barrel will do anything one could want, "unless" that 40 deg shoulder and straight case is your huckleberry, then you "must" have the AI! ha.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks preacher years ago when I built my 257 Roberts I did a lot off reading on the Ackely improved cartridges and if I can remember right because this was in the 70s to acheive maximum gain from the Ackely a 26" barrel was required and the 24" barrel was minimum with a 22" barrel you saw no gain at all. I can't qoute the author but remember that the article said the test barrel started out at 30" and was cut off in 2" increments till they got to 26 and then started cutting 1" off till they got to 20" where they stopped because 22" is where they noticed no gain. This may not hold true in all Ackely improved cartridges but it did in the one they tested.
I didn't chamber my 257 to the Ackely because the barrel is a 1-12 twist rate and was built to shoot light bullets for varmints and already had enough velocity to do what I wanted.

 

[JD338]

The best AI is the 280 AI. It is a well balanced cartridge and will give you the highest gain in performance. The 257 AI is right behind it.

JD338

 

[preacher]

My first AI was Mod 700 Classic in 257 Roberts (24" bbl) I could also seat the bullets out far. It was a gee whiz shooter! I sold it (had a young family then), about 10yrs later, I got it back, but my friend had cut it off to 21" to get in the deer blind easier; ruined it. I just put a takeoff 25.06 bbl on it. I really liked that 280 AI, but back then, the only brass I could find was the Remington nickled brass. It was very brittle, necks split easy. I traded that rifle for the above 257 AI (before I knew he had cut the bbl shorter! I only gained 50fps with the 280AI,ha.

 

[35 Whelen]

Whats not to love about a 35 Whelen, its used to be refereed to as the twin brother of the 350 Rem Mag, but I really think that is a misconception.................. it should be refereed to as the 338 Win Mags little twin brother . You get a small light handy gun and that packs the power of a 338WM. Its sorta like having a date with two Lady's at the same time, Shaina Twain and Katherine Hagel................ whats NOT to like about that! For hunting any game in North America and a large part of African game the 35 Whelen takes a back seat to none of them. I personally dont think of the Whelen as gun for game under 400lbs and dont use mine for Deer hunting but realize many do. To me it really comes into its own with the 225-250gr bullets with 2700/2600 respective velocitys............ what else does this with out a big heavy barrel or a belt on the cartridge or the word Magnum after the caliber???
I guided a guy a few seasons ago that hunt Africa all the time, he told me his PH uses a old 460 #2 Nitro some of the time but told him he has a pre64 Model 70 in 35 Whelen that some American hunter gave him many years ago. He has used it many times to back up hunters on wounded LYONS and claimed it will knock the snot right out of them same as it does any 500-700lb animals.
Now I am not suggesting it is the first choice for wounded lyons here; just stating what he told me!

 

[AzDak42]

The best AI is the 280 AI. It is a well balanced cartridge and will give you the highest gain in performance. The 257 AI is right behind it.

JD338

I do not, in any way, mean to start one of those crazy internet dust ups, but an you help me understand where the 280AI fits in the scheme of things? I'd always thought it was simply a very good beltless alternative to the 7RM. Is there something more than that? For the reality in the field, it just seems to be almost an exact peer of the 7RM.

 

[SJB358]

The best AI is the 280 AI. It is a well balanced cartridge and will give you the highest gain in performance. The 257 AI is right behind it.

JD338

I do not, in any way, mean to start one of those crazy internet dust ups, but an you help me understand where the 280AI fits in the scheme of things? I'd always thought it was simply a very good beltless alternative to the 7RM. Is there something more than that? For the reality in the field, it just seems to be almost an exact peer of the 7RM.

I think it does about the same as a 7mm Rem Mag, but loaded PSI to PSI, the 7mm Rem and 7WSM will edge it out, but again, with more powder, and recoil. 6 and 1/2 dozen and heck, that 280 Improved is a very cool looking case, but I am very fond of the 7mm WSM though. Think it looks pretty cool as well! Looks are worth something, right? :lol:

 

[35 Whelen]

Well it certainly works for Catherine Zeta-Jones! Looks I mean; not a 280AI! :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

200 AB

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 200, Nosler AccuBond 54425
Useable Case Capaci: 61.701 grain H2O = 4.006 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 98 55.80 2639 3093 44203 7141 93.9 1.218
-09.0 99 56.42 2669 3162 45736 7223 94.4 1.199
-08.0 100 57.04 2698 3233 47325 7302 94.9 1.181
-07.0 101 57.66 2727 3304 48972 7378 95.3 1.163
-06.0 102 58.28 2757 3375 50681 7453 95.7 1.146
-05.0 104 58.90 2786 3448 52454 7524 96.1 1.129
-04.0 105 59.52 2816 3521 54294 7594 96.5 1.112
-03.0 106 60.14 2845 3595 56203 7660 96.9 1.095 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 60.76 2875 3670 58185 7724 97.2 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 108 61.38 2904 3745 60244 7785 97.5 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 109 62.00 2933 3821 62383 7843 97.8 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 110 62.62 2963 3898 64606 7898 98.1 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 63.24 2992 3976 66917 7950 98.4 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 112 63.86 3021 4054 69320 7999 98.6 1.002 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 113 64.48 3051 4133 71821 8044 98.9 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 114 65.10 3080 4212 74424 8086 99.1 0.973 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 62.00 3067 4178 75070 7669 100.0 0.973 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 62.00 2752 3364 50210 7627 91.7 1.145


225AB

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler AccuBond 50712
Useable Case Capaci: 57.585 grain H2O = 3.739 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 98 52.20 2494 3107 45758 6775 95.5 1.271
-09.0 99 52.78 2521 3175 47341 6846 95.9 1.252
-08.0 101 53.36 2548 3244 48982 6915 96.3 1.233
-07.0 102 53.94 2575 3313 50683 6982 96.6 1.215
-06.0 103 54.52 2602 3384 52446 7046 97.0 1.197
-05.0 104 55.10 2630 3455 54276 7108 97.3 1.179
-04.0 105 55.68 2657 3526 56174 7167 97.6 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 106 56.26 2684 3598 58144 7224 97.9 1.145 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 107 56.84 2711 3671 60189 7278 98.2 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 108 57.42 2738 3745 62312 7329 98.5 1.112 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 109 58.00 2765 3819 64518 7377 98.7 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.0 110 58.58 2792 3894 66811 7423 98.9 1.080 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 111 59.16 2819 3969 69194 7465 99.1 1.064 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 113 59.74 2846 4045 71672 7504 99.3 1.049 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 60.32 2872 4122 74251 7541 99.5 1.034 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 115 60.90 2899 4199 76936 7573 99.6 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 58.00 2881 4147 77525 7124 100.0 1.021 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 58.00 2603 3385 52027 7267 93.4 1.195


225 PT

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Nosler PART SP 44800
Useable Case Capaci: 62.088 grain H2O = 4.031 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 95 54.60 2523 3180 45309 7215 96.1 1.270
-09.0 96 55.21 2550 3249 46831 7290 96.4 1.251
-08.0 98 55.82 2577 3318 48405 7362 96.8 1.233
-07.0 99 56.42 2604 3388 50034 7432 97.2 1.215
-06.0 100 57.03 2631 3459 51719 7500 97.5 1.197
-05.0 101 57.64 2658 3530 53464 7564 97.8 1.180
-04.0 102 58.24 2685 3602 55271 7626 98.1 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 103 58.85 2712 3674 57142 7686 98.3 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 59.46 2739 3747 59080 7742 98.6 1.130 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 105 60.06 2765 3821 61088 7796 98.8 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 60.67 2792 3895 63169 7847 99.0 1.098 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 107 61.28 2819 3969 65326 7894 99.2 1.082 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 108 61.88 2845 4045 67564 7939 99.4 1.067 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 109 62.49 2872 4120 69885 7980 99.5 1.052 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 110 63.10 2898 4197 72293 8018 99.7 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 111 63.70 2925 4273 74794 8053 99.8 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 60.67 2906 4218 75583 7563 100.0 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 60.67 2632 3462 51202 7756 94.1 1.197


250 PT

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 250, Nosler PART SP 44801
Useable Case Capaci: 59.664 grain H2O = 3.874 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 94 51.98 2397 3190 46266 6951 97.3 1.325
-09.0 96 52.55 2422 3257 47799 7017 97.6 1.306
-08.0 97 53.13 2447 3325 49384 7082 97.9 1.287
-07.0 98 53.71 2472 3393 51020 7143 98.2 1.269
-06.0 99 54.29 2497 3461 52716 7202 98.4 1.251
-05.0 100 54.86 2522 3531 54468 7259 98.7 1.233
-04.0 101 55.44 2547 3600 56280 7313 98.9 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 102 56.02 2571 3671 58155 7364 99.1 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 103 56.60 2596 3741 60096 7413 99.3 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 104 57.17 2621 3813 62105 7458 99.4 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 57.75 2645 3884 64185 7501 99.6 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 106 58.33 2670 3957 66340 7541 99.7 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 107 58.91 2694 4029 68573 7577 99.8 1.117 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 108 59.48 2718 4102 70886 7611 99.9 1.102 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 109 60.06 2743 4176 73285 7642 99.9 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 110 60.64 2767 4250 75773 7669 100.0 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 57.75 2744 4179 76596 7182 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 57.75 2503 3477 52166 7508 95.5 1.250


You can see how well RL15 fits the Whelen. There are a bunch of others, but RL15 isn't a bad place to start. It has worked really well for me.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the data Scotty very impressive for a non magnum cartridge.

 

[SJB358]

Thanks for the data Scotty very impressive for a non magnum cartridge.

You aren't kidding. It is a very impressive round Rodger.

 

[DrMike]

I still have them on order. Who knows? They may be in when I get home.

 

[tjen]

As one writer stated the 35 whelen takes over where the 30-06 leaves off for larger game. So for 400-1500 lb game its a sweet performer. How ever you can still put down a 100lb deer with far less meat damage than a 270win or simular cartrige. How is that put? eat right to the bullet hole I believe.

I have been neglecting my 35 whelen lately for my Rem700/358win just because I have not ben on any hunting trips lately and the little short action handles so well. Here I michigan where most shots are 10-150 yards most of the time. 200 -250 yards shots are a few and the 358win let alone the whelen are certainly up for that. I find it very easy to hit a "sitting" clay pigion at 200 yards with the VX3 1.5-5 on my 358win. I think 5" a far estamit of their diameter.