45 - 70 bullet performance

[buffaloman]

I raise and slaughter buffalo ( bison). Each year in the fall, I kill 3-8 animals. The range is short; 25 yards. The shot is always a neck shot just behind the skull. I started shooting using my 35 Whelan using 225 or 250 grain bullets usually factory loads by Federal or Winchester. If I do my job, each kill is instant and sudden. Execution style ( just the way I want to go; lights on then off). For various reasons I switched to a 45-70 caliber with a red dot site. I first used 300 grain Federal loads but had to switch when I couldn't get a one shot kill. Bullets would enter the neck and travel into the chest cavity, etc. I recovered several bullets. They expanded but just wouldn't penerate. I switched to Nosler 300 grain partitions thinking they would perform well. Well they didn't. They too mushroomed; traveled throught the neck on one into the opposite cheeck. I had to put a second round into them to finish the kill. I shot 5 animals this Novemeber. The first two with the 45-70 all two shot kills. I switched back to the 35 Whelan and had three one shot kills. Why wont the 45 caliber do the job? Both should do the job from an energy perspective. All shots were properly placed so that is not the problem. Killing a buffalo with a neck shot canbe done with a 22 mag, the key is shot placement, not power.

 

[Sharpsman]

Hmmmmm....I'm a little 'kornfused' because you say "they won't penetrate" but in the next sentence you're saying that the bullets are going on into the chest cavity and the opposite cheek!

Where.....or how far.....penetration-wise are the 35 Whelen's going?? :roll: :roll:

 

[buffaloman]

The 35 cal usually penetrats thru the entire spinal column exisitng the other side . The 45 cal stay in the animal. I guess the difference is the 45 cal seems to not penetrate the vertibra thereby not hitting the spinal column and its fuild that transfers the hydraulc shock wave to the brain thereby causing instant death. The 35 cal does.

 

[Sharpsman]

Try ya an all-lead 550 gr. PJ Creedmoor bullet cast at 20-1! That....will shoot through 'air' buffalo from end to end!! :lol:

 

[buffaloman]

thanks, what is an "air buffalo"? Also where would i get these bullets? Any thoughts on why the Nosler 45 don't seem to work?

 

[Sharpsman]

thanks, what is an "air buffalo"? Also where would i get these bullets? Any thoughts on why the Nosler 45 don't seem to work?

"air buffalo"??? Well....thet bees 'redneck' fur a buffalo!

Try www.buffaloarms.com They have plenty of 'em!

As for the Nosler not working.....the jackets TOO THIN.....and the lead core is TOO SOFT!! Bullets are 'fragmenting' aka not holding together!!

Here ya go:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,431.htm

 

[LoneStar]

I imagine that the Nosler Partition bullets are holding together just fine, but they lack the sectional density of heavier bullets. A 300-grain bullet is actually very light for a .45-70, but a 550-grain bullet may not work at all if you shoot a Marlin - the cartridge overall length is too short for the best loading of the long heavy bullets. Seat the 550s deep and they use up most of the powder space. Don't even think about using the cast bullet recommended above in a Marlin! Can be done single loaded I suppose, but far better to choose a lighter, shorter bullet. A hard 400-grain cast bullet would work, as would a jacketed bullet like the Hornady 350 or Remington 405 - like the 550 cast, all in handloads.


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[Sharpsman]

I imagine that the Nosler Partition bullets are holding together just fine, but they lack the sectional density of heavier bullets. A 300-grain bullet is actually very light for a .45-70, but a 550-grain bullet may not work at all if you shoot a Marlin - the cartridge overall length is too short for the best loading of the long heavy bullets. Seat the 550s deep and they use up most of the powder space. Don't even think about using the cast bullet recommended above in a Marlin! Can be done single loaded I suppose, but far better to choose a lighter, shorter bullet. A hard 400-grain cast bullet would work, as would a jacketed bullet like the Hornady 350 or Remington 405 - like the 550 cast, all in handloads.


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Lonestar

I DIDN'T MENTION.....using a Marlin! That....would be my LAST CHOICE! And....I still say...the jackets TOO THIN.....and the cores is TOO SOFT!!

 

[HeathSexton]

Here's an article on a 525gr Pile Driver Bullet, complete with pictures of a dead buffalo and a ideo at the bottom with the bullet fired from a Marlin.

A quote from the article: "From the beginning, specifications for dimensions of this bullet were expressly optimized for use in the Marlin 1895 series of lever-action rifles. "


http://beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/ ... ght.htm/21

 

[Alaska]

switch too 350gr Hardcast FNGC at 2000 FPS and you will not have that problem!

 

[FOTIS]

Or the 300 gr Partition at 2100 fps.

 

[tapehoser]

Disclaimer: I rely wholly on Nosler bullets for nearly ALL of my hunting applications and know that they are among the highest of the high quality bullets on the market. However, if the one you are using does not give the penetration you desire, you might try a heavier bullet.

Try the 405 grain CorBon with the Penetrator core. There was a story in Petersen's Hunting (I think) a while back where the author used that cartridge in conjunction with a Marlin 1895 and it completely penetrated the shoulders of 2 African buffaloes. Another cartridge penetrated from the rump to the brisket of an older bull.