95 grain Ballistic Tip failure on a whitetail

[Jurome]

Hi all,

A couple of weeks ago I did some reasearch here because I was having much better accuracy with the 95 grain BT's than my 85 grain Partitions, in my .243. Having only used the Partition in a hunting environment and not the BT other than at targets, I seeked advice from others...many here said that the BT is an excellent hunting bullet so I decided to go with that.

Last week on my annual whitetail hunt, I was able to get a shot at huge buck in his bed at 40 yards. Bullet velocity was tested pre-hunt at 2750 fps. Put one right into his left shoulder, and the bullet exploded into a million pieces (obviously from bone impact). The main body of the bullet took a hard right, ran the length of his body and finshed somewhere into his left rear leg, shattering that bone as well. Off he goes into the thickest, nastiest bush on the planet with two broken legs. There was a huge amount of lung blood but he did not die. It took me one hour of tracking to finally catch up with him and finish him off. Once skinned out on the meat pole I could see that the small bullet fragments continued directly into his lungs but barely going into the opposite side lung. Firstly, I feel badly for the poor animal to have suffered such an atrocious end, and secondly, talk about a waste of meat. I was just grateful for fresh snow and the ability to locate the animal.

It is in my opinion I will likely avoid using this bullet for hunting and go back to my Partitions, which I have shot at close range before with great success. Or maybe I will test Accubonds, also which I have only used on paper. I don't mean to be negative about this bullet, but it clearly was not up to the task.

 

[gerry]

If I'm reading it right the bullet deflected after hitting the shoulder bone and penetrated to the rear leg on the same side. Is that correct?

 

[Jurome]

Yes that is correct...the small fragments stayed on course straight into the lungs and the mass of the bullet did a ninety degree hard right after disintegrating the left shoulder in its entirety.

 

[JD338]

The Ballistic Tip is an excellent deer bullet but it's not intended to be a shoulder buster. The AccuBond and Partition are better suited for smashing through big bone.

JD338

 

[Jurome]

Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it. I certainly learned that on this last deer. I actually had intended all along to use my Partition loads, but the BT's were so much more accurate and I ran out of time to get to the range for further load development on the Partitions, so I just ran with what was making clover leafs on the target.

 

[SJB358]

I’m surprised myself. Myself and family have busted does to good sized northern bucks in every place I can think of to hit one and they’ve crushed deer. But weird stuff does happen. Glad you got your deer

 

[gerry]

Yes that is correct...the small fragments stayed on course straight into the lungs and the mass of the bullet did a ninety degree hard right after disintegrating the left shoulder in its entirety.

I think that could have happened with any bullet to be honest. Sometimes weird things happen. I wouldn't worry about it too much and would try the 95 gr BT again. Of course you could try the AccuBond or Partition instead.

 

[TackDriver284]

Looks like the deer was quartered at a slight angle when the bullet made the impact on the shoulder which caused the deflection. I had an issue once where an impala was quartered away and a similar result happened. From that day on, I always made the shots broadside and those deflection issues stopped and was DRT. And yes, the BT can react more violently on bone than a AccuBond, but I refrain from making shoulder shots with Ballistic Tips and always put them at the crease of the shoulders and they do exit on the opposite side of those lungs and they do DRT or don't make it very far. Accubonds are made for shoulder bone and are more tough bullets than Ballistic Tips. If you like shoulder shots, go with Accubonds, and I'm sure they won't disappoint. I have a big stash of Ballistic Tips for various calibers and they work for me for deer sized to medium sized game. I stick with Accubonds for large tough game like nilgai which needs to penetrate shoulders to bring them down.

 

[Wolfshead]

Yes that is correct...the small fragments stayed on course straight into the lungs and the mass of the bullet did a ninety degree hard right after disintegrating the left shoulder in its entirety.

I don’t like ballistic tips or any similar bullets because of the fragmentation and such.
I use accubonds and have had great results with them.
To say the bullet failed I’m not sure is accurate as it sounds like it did what it was designed to do, but I wouldn’t have been happy if that had been me either.

 

[salmonchaser]

I’ve killed an awful lot of deer with Ballistic Tips, mostly 30, 25, and 284 caliber. It was designed for deer and antelope and Im certain the guys at Nosler get very frustrated when folks complain they didn’t work so well on bigger stuff. My experience is they are not very good at going through heavy bone. I know in the group I hunt with we’ve killed well over a 100 mule deer with the Ballistic tips since they came out, never lost a deer but we did have to track some.
I appreciate your frustration with the meat loss, nothing like trying to clean a deer up that, for lack of a better description, has been shot to hell.
I agree, partitions always work it seems and quite frankly I have never worried about the difference between a bullet that groups at 1 inch compared to 1/2 inch when shooting from field positions. When I get off the bench and shoot from kneeling or sitting at 3 or 400 yards, if I keep the cross hairs on the plate I hit it, if the trigger breaks just as the cross hairs wiggle off, I miss. AccuBond, Ballistic tip or Partition, I can’t hold tight enough even from sitting to see much of a difference. Go out to 5 hundred and beyond, sure the difference in accuracy will make a difference.
The AccuBond is the best of both worlds in my opinion. I’ve busted both shoulders on elk at distances ranging from 30 yards to 501 yards. I’ve also put the AccuBond through the slats at similar distances, they work every time it would seem. Never lost an animal, tracked a few for a few yards and only recovered one bullet. They can be every bit as accurate as the Ballistic Tip as well.
Give the Accubonds a try, I have found my best accuracy using quite a bit of Jump, .075 to .1 off the lands. Ballistic tips I always start at .02 off. Good luck!
Welcome to the Forum.

 

[Guy Miner]

Ya, at short range, shooting for the shoulder, I'd prefer the Partition or the AccuBond. Or the E-Tip for that matter.

I've happily used the Ballistic Tip from the 6mm Rem, 25-06 Rem, 308 and 30-06, but for tough chores like busting a shoulder at close range, I prefer a tougher bullet.

And - congrats on taking your buck!

Regards, Guy

 

[Jurome]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Yes I'm certainly not here to try and speak in negative tongues about the BT, its just that I have made these shots before with different bullets without such disastrous outcomes. Previous comment about possibly quartering away...it was a direct, oblique, 90 degree broadside shot. It is only the second time in all the years I have shot game where I have seen such a deflection. I shot a whitetail 25 years ago with a 300 Win Mag and had the same exact deflection (front shoulder then 90 degree turn) but the bullet did not desintegrate, and the deer dropped right in it's tracks, and I was able to recover the bullet out of the left rear hip.

And yes, strange thing can and do happen occasionally...very grateful to have recovered the buck. Thanks for the great tips and advice.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Yeah, I don’t aim for shoulders and deer with any bullet. I always aim like I’m shooting bow and arrow. Basically center mass or the bottom third of the deer about 2 to 3 inches and back of the front shoulder. I dropped deer like Thor‘s hammer using 90 grain ballistic tips. Loaded a lot faster than yours. You can check out my post. I even blew through a shoulder on an exit. It was hot loaded and the shot was probably 15 to 18 yards. If it bothers you switch to a harder bullet. I just would tell you to stop aiming for shoulders. When I was a kid, I always aim for high shoulder shots. It would always drop them on the spot using my 30-06 and 180 grain core locts. I would also have to throw away the front shoulders every year. If I hit one now, it’s only by accident on an exit from the angle I was shooting. You shoot broadside behind the shoulders. I would assume a deer will probably drop 99% of the time at the shot with a 95 grain ballistic tip. Trying to break shoulders with a ballistic tip is not something I would recommend or try doing. I also wouldn’t try doing it with the 243 no matter what bullet I picked. Could’ve just been a freak incident or just a bad shot placement as well from the angle that looked like it was a great shot placement. If you go down the .234 test posts about seven or eight down, you’ll see 90 grain ballistic tip versus Whitetail deer and see my pictures of it braking through a bunch of ribs at the steep angle I was shooting at and you can barely see it resting underneath the skin with another photo I posted after blew through the opposite shoulder. That deer hit the ground so fast at the shot I thought I missed it. My buddy uses Scirrocco’s loaded around 3250 fps. Most deer run 40 to 60 yards after being shot with an archery broadside shot the ballistic tips for me anchor them just about every time. You just have to be careful with your shot placement when you’re using a marginal caliber on deer in my opinion. Otherwise, I’m sure 100 grain Partition will blow through it from end to end.

 

[RL338]

Bullet velocity was tested pre-hunt at 2750 fps.

That muzzle velocity seems low for a 243 Win unless you’re using a handgun. I would have thought with the lower impact speed the BT would hold together better.
I also shy away from shoulder shots.
Others have given good advice on the AB and Part.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Yeah, I was thinking that was really slow too. Even with my 16 1/2 inch barrel I’m probably close to 3250 with the 90s. Or even a little faster. You would think that slower speed would’ve helped it hold together even better. Guess I would’ve had to been there for the shot and also to see the autopsy photos of the deer. Also the angle that was shot.

 

[Blkram]

I would echo what has already been said...expecting a rapid expansion bullet to hold up on heavier shoulder bone, and deflected by the shot angle, at close range is unrealistic.
Don't let one poor experience influence your overall assessment of bullet performance. If it does it consistently on a number of animals, then you can be concerned.

I have heard plenty of people tell of the early BT's fragmenting like crazy on shoulder shots and shots at close distance. According to some, Nosler beefed up the jackets(???) for better weight retention afterwards, and there have been fewer complaints.
Was your BT out of an older box or newer manufacture?

 

[badaxeriverman]

Maybe try the 90s then maybe the shorter projectile is a little bit more stouter? Doubt it guessing they’re probably the same. Here’s my experience after breaking a shoulder bone and there’s also another poster that talked about blowing through both shoulders of an elk, but that was after it slowed down to 150 to 200 yards, which is probably comparable to what your muzzle velocity is.

90 grain Nosler ballistic tip vs whitetail deer

I decide to try a 90 grain ballistic tip on a deer. Shot quite a bobcat and many coyote with them and then switched to 70 grain versions. I had some doe tags to try out some of the old 90 grainers I had loaded up and stored away for decades. I used a Remington 600 with a 18.5" barrel. The load...

forum.nosler.com

90gn BT Recovered from 5pt Bull Elk

Here is a 90gn BT recovered from under the hide after breaking both shoulders and the plumbing above the heart. Shot was about 175 - 200 yds. Not too bad for such a "fragile" bullet. Just don't push the Ballistic Tip too fast and performance will be satisfactory. Last time I can...

forum.nosler.com

Imo it was just poor shot placement, probably from the angle you shot it at. It happens, not picking on you by any means. Next time try to take a broad side shot right behind the shoulder. Or just switch to a Partition, but I would tell you to go with a heavier Partition then 85 grains. How far do you shoot? In my neck of the woods it’s so thick. I can’t see past 150 yards so there’s no reason to shoot a light flat projectile. I always shoot heavy for caliber so I get a guaranteed exit and normally a straight line pass-through. Most of these younger guys are always worried to shoot the lightest and fastest projectile on the planet. Realistically in the Deerwoods, that is the last thing I want. I’ll take an old school round nose, heavy for caliber and zero it in an inch higher so at 100 yards. Most the times I just zero it at 100 yards because my average shot is probably 15 to 45 yards. The deer I shot the other day was directly underneath my stand. He was walking right to me and I waited till he walked broadside at 20 yards and stopped. Could’ve shot it at 100 yards and I waited till it walked right to me and then started walking away. I waited until I decided I wanted to shoot and also had a good shot placement instead of it walking directly towards me. I waited until it passed me and stopped broadside. Sure I could’ve shot it walking to me between the shoulder blades. I could’ve been a little left or right from POA and did the same thing as you did and had it “veer” off shoulder plate and had a runner. I don’t get that excited any more so I just wait for a perfect shot or I don’t take one. I’m guessing you probably took a shot in an extreme angle. I would wait for more of a broadside shot next time around and try and keep the cross hairs away from the shoulder plates. If you just get too excited or take marginal shots then just switch to that Partition and I know you aren’t gonna have any issues but I would tell you to stick to a heavier 95 or 100 grain version if you’re trying to blow through shoulders at close range.


I’ve never tried the 95 grain Nosler ballistic tips just because I always had 90s laying around. Everything I read online says they are Thors hammer and the go to bullet for 243s if you want to drop deer on the spot. But I’m guessing those deer that have dropped are all with well placed archery type heart and lung shots. Might have to try partitions next year out of my 243 and see how they do. I have a few boxes of the screw style that I traded for that are the early production ones in 85, 95, and 100 grain versions. That I need to trade some collectors for the modern version since I’m sure those boxes and bullets are probably worth more than just shooting them up to some collector. I have a box of 75 grain zipedo’s too. Traded for some cast bullets I made.

My buddies have tried both Scirrocco’s and accubonds in 243 on deer. Imo both to hard and end up with 60 yard track jobs on average. Plain old hornady cup and core projectiles have knocked them down with shoulder shots at close range for them. Imo everyone gets to carried away with the “ marketing Gimmic” of plastic tipped projectiles… and more shoot them at deer way under 100 yards Which is defeating the whole purpose of why they were designed. I’m just as guilty as charged. They work great you just have to make sure you stay off bone.

 

[Jurome]

I appreciate and agree with your last paragraph...I am also guilty as charged. I have a fortune in bullets to reload of various designs; new and hype and good old fashioned reliable classics.

I've only had two times where the bullet grenaded this badly. The other time the animal only went ten yards and piled up.

Where I hunt it can be 10 yard shots up to 400 yards, but for me with the rifle I still hunt with I would limit my shots to 250-275 yards.

Shot placement? Sure, we can split hairs here and say I should have been 1.176" to the right just a tad and not have hit where I did. No, there was no "extreme angle" as I mentioned in the original post he was bedded. I was square to him and a gentle downhill presentation at 40 yards. When you see a buck like this, bedded on the fringe of thickest bush imaginable, there is no opportunity to wait for the most opportune, better shot. Because there isn't one. I have killed numerous animals bedded with zero issues, all had stayed right in their bed. I'm not a bow hunter and not such a puritan that the animal has to be standing, poster-pose, broad side. I could see the heart lung area clearly through the willows and I've got one chance, one only. I am fairly certain the Partition would have done a better job is all I am saying.

My bias is ingrained, and I will be moving away from BT's onto Accubonds moving forward. At least for close quarters bush hunting. I'm not saying I won't be shooting BT's anymore, I am just going to be more specific where I use them.

PS: thanks for the mention of the Scirocco's I am testing them for the forst time I will keep that in mind.

 

[Jurome]

Here is the buck...

 

[salmonchaser]

I appreciate and agree with your last paragraph...I am also guilty as charged. I have a fortune in bullets to reload of various designs; new and hype and good old fashioned reliable classics.

I've only had two times where the bullet grenaded this badly. The other time the animal only went ten yards and piled up.

Where I hunt it can be 10 yard shots up to 400 yards, but for me with the rifle I still hunt with I would limit my shots to 250-275 yards.

Shot placement? Sure, we can split hairs here and say I should have been 1.176" to the right just a tad and not have hit where I did. No, there was no "extreme angle" as I mentioned in the original post he was bedded. I was square to him and a gentle downhill presentation at 40 yards. When you see a buck like this, bedded on the fringe of thickest bush imaginable, there is no opportunity to wait for the most opportune, better shot. Because there isn't one. I have killed numerous animals bedded with zero issues, all had stayed right in their bed. I'm not a bow hunter and not such a puritan that the animal has to be standing, poster-pose, broad side. I could see the heart lung area clearly through the willows and I've got one chance, one only. I am fairly certain the Partition would have done a better job is all I am saying.

My bias is ingrained, and I will be moving away from BT's onto Accubonds moving forward. At least for close quarters bush hunting. I'm not saying I won't be shooting BT's anymore, I am just going to be more specific where I use them.

PS: thanks for the mention of the Scirocco's I am testing them for the forst time I will keep that in mind.

Hard to get rid of a bullet bias, I’ve one against Sierra’s, I’ll never hunt with them again.