A Return to the 30-06

[Blkram]

This is what I'm missing in my arsenal. A 30-06 AI is nice!

I was over at a friends today to cut and wrap my caribou, as we had hung it in his cooler for the week.
We got to talking about his 30-06 Ackley Improved. He shoots the 168 gr TTSX with H-414. Says the old rifle (Savage Model 110 w/ detachable magazine- but well worn) loves that load.
Apparently H-414 has been discontinued??? And he is now searching for a replacement powder. Any suggestions?

 

[slickrem]

W760 is the same powder. A2700 is close

 

[JD338]

Gil,

Have your friend look at W760, it's the same as H414.

JD338

 

[RL338]

Anything in the H4350 burn rate will work.

 

[TXbaldhunter]

Big Game is another powder close to Win 760/H-414.It is just a little faster on the burnrate scale.Load would be around .5-1.0grs less .It works well in my rifles. It's a bit cheaper and seems to be available most of the sites that sell powder.I load 55.5grs of Big Game,Win case,168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip for a little over 2900fps.

 

[Blkram]

Thanks guys,
I was pretty sure that H-414 was the same as W-760 but needed to confirm for him. Didn't want to trust the memory in case I had it wrong. (trust, but verify! kind of thing! ) I'll let him know

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

IMR4350. THE powder for .30-06 in my experience. But there are LOTS of others that work great too!

 

[6PPC]

Two Tikka rifles in 30-06. Old M-65 Sporter and T3 lite stainless

 

[JD338]

IMR4350. THE powder for .30-06 in my experience. But there are LOTS of others that work great too!

That was always my go to powder

JD338

 

[redryder66]

I've had good luck with R-16 and the 180 grain Partition. 2860 fps at 0.5 MOA from my Kimber Mtn. Ascent

 

[JD338]

I've had good luck with R-16 and the 180 grain Partition. 2860 fps at 0.5 MOA from my Kimber Mtn. Ascent

That's one heck of a load there. 300 H&H Mag territory. Well done sir.

JD338

 

[6mm Remington]

Love my 30-06 using 165 gr. Partitions or Accubonds. That's all I ever load for it at 2940 fps out of my Ruger 1B. I want for nothing more, but like all of you folks I seem to be unable to own just one rifle.

 

[PJGunner]

Love my 30-06 using 165 gr. Partitions or Accubonds. That's all I ever load for it at 2940 fps out of my Ruger 1B. I want for nothing more, but like all of you folks I seem to be unable to own just one rifle.

I seem to suffer from the same malady.
Paul B.

 

[slickrem]

Gil,

Have your friend look at W760, it's the same as H414.

JD338

looks aren't enough. BLC-2 looks the same, but don't burn the same. Years ago I asked Sierra about IMR/H 4895, they are interchangeable. They are the only two powders that are, they said.

 

[ShadeTree]

looks aren't enough. BLC-2 looks the same, but don't burn the same. Years ago I asked Sierra about IMR/H 4895, they are interchangeable. They are the only two powders that are, they said.

The tech you spoke to at Sierra be wrong. Or else you're remembering it wrong one or the other.

They are not interchangeable. 2 different burn rates as any reloading book clearly shows by the difference in both charge weights and pressure. One of the few powders where IMR is slower burning than it's H counterpart.

In the case of 760/H414, they are interchangeable because they are the same powder.

As to the rest of it used in this context.

"Look at"

Verb:

To think about, consider.

 

[slickrem]

Per Hodgdons tech rep

H4895 has additives that make it temperature stable, IMR4895 is not. They are not the same powders

I'm guess H burns a little cooler because of the additive to make it, Less, temp insensitive.

 

[ShadeTree]

Not the same by a good spread.

30-06 data which is exactly what is being discussed so I didn't go find some anomaly out in left field.

165 grain Sierra bullet.

H4895 Max charge. 47.5 gr. FPS 2782 Pressure: 49,000 CUP
IMR 4895 Max charge. 52 gr. FPS 2888 Pressure 57,200 PSI

Swap max charges on those "identical" powders and you'd be fortunate to walk away with only a worse for the wear gun. Go 4.5 grains over max with H4895 on a 165 grain bullet and see if you don't get your fingers slapped good for your trouble.

 

[slickrem]

you comparing cup and PSI.... so you really don't know if they are spread apart that far.

Swap max charges on those "identical" powders and you'd be fortunate to walk away with only a worse for the wear gun. Go 4.5 grains over max with H4895 on a 165 grain bullet and see if you don't get your fingers slapped good for your trouble.

Are you speaking from experience or do you know someone who had something happen to them ?

 

[ShadeTree]

you comparing cup and PSI.... so you really don't know if they are spread apart that far

Good grief man. I'm not comparing anything, that's the data given.

Saami max pressure recommendation for a 30-06 in CUP is 50,000

Saami max pressure recommendation for a 30-06 in PSI is 60,000.

H4895 max charge is 4.5 grains less with the same bullet. You can argue with yourself for the next 3 weeks about this I really don't care, but you wont be able to get around the fact that 4.5 grains is a LOT different. Both loads are shown near the max pressure, hence the whole reason for the recommended max charge. That's how reloading data and reloading books work.

 

[slickrem]

You can't compare CUP and PSI

I see H @ 54 PSI and IMR @ 56 PSI, Lee Load manual with a 150 grain bullet, ok you win.

One other guy said Sierra told him the same thing. Some things you don't forget, and the same tech I asked questions to, told me.

However........... Just because you have a charge that's higher doesn't mean much unless the pressures there and you know as well as I do, that some loads are hotter than others depending on the load manual with the same bullet weight and powder, then what ?? I have to up date my load manuals to meet current powders ? NOT

I guess online data would be the safest?