Advice for someone starting out

[jimbires]

Last night I signed up for an IBS style shoot here local. 3/6 at 9am. I've decided to use my 7 mag for this shoot since it's heavy, long barrel, good optic and I think this will give me some practice for longer rangers. Be good to meet some local guys doing these shoots as well.

I have decided I'm going to build a load just for shooting paper. Using Berger's Twist Calculator I checked probably 10 different target rounds and settled on... not a target round. I'm thinking the 150g Berger Classic Hunter. I was really set on the LRx in 168, but according to their twist calculator my 9.5 twist barrel will only be moderately stable.

I was told the wind at this shoot is a big factor, it typically is coming in at a direct right angle and 10 to 20 mph. That will be the most difficult thing for me to adjust to.

wind is always tough .

 

[Ralt71]

So if I’ve interpreted what you’re wanting to accomplish in order to achieve precision long range shooting with an acceptable, meaning no less than 50% hits in field positions, on the clock……. But with the end result to most likely (if you have the proper equipment and skills) to approach 80% hit probability or more!?! You’re going to want a dedicated rifle in order for you to learn proper shooting fundamentals, and with enough hits on steel targets, because paper targets don’t instantaneously tell you what you need to know…. You’re gonna wanna use what every person doing the same thing is using.

As a pro they mostly use 6 mm Dashers, or BRA of some type, a few use the 6 mm GT, or some other 6 mm, like a 6x47. A lot of shooters have also gravitated towards the 25 caliber guns recently, I personally prefer the 25x47 Lapua. As all the high BC bullets are rather long, and you don’t have to seat them as deep in the case as compared to the 25 Creedmoor. That said plenty of people have gotten started shooting PRS, or NRL hunter with a 6.5 Creedmoor. As far as NRL Hunter goes the 6 mm will not make the power factor which is the bullet wait times the velocity. Therefore you’ll have to be using something more geared towards hunting.

But there is a caveat to that, recoil. The arch enemy of all when it comes down to precision shooting. Plain and simple, it’s easier and more accurate to shoot a lighter recoiling cartridge then a big boomer that’s a fact!

If you really wanna learn how to shoot long distance, you’re gonna want an extremely well built gun for accuracy. It makes no sense to waste ammunition and your time wondering is it is the gun and/or the ammunition or me that I’m missing? Yes the wind can go ahead and play with you as it blows across the wide open spaces, but that’s why you’ll need a reticle that as harsh marks for corrections!

Which gets down to the next thing you’re gonna need, a high quality scope that has adjustable elevation and windage turrets, as well as a ranging radical (FFP ONLY) that allows you to immediately hold for corrections and send another round down range! Mrad/Mil system works best, less revolutions to dial, or see in your reticle. You can certainly get away with 12 X, or 15 X no problem! I’ve shot entire two day matches with my scope sitting at anywhere from 9 to 11x for targets out to 1200 yards.

As an RO, I’ve often watched plenty of people waste all their time on the clock dialing up and dialing down to find every target. Meanwhile, you could be shooting if you just left your scope with enough power that’s usable for the situation to accomplish both. Meaning, as long as you can see where your hits and misses are. By the way, I like really good class! The European stuff blows away anything you can find in Japan. That said, you also have to have repeatable clicks that match exactly what you dial. Bushnell is one of the those companies I would recommend if you don’t have a lot of money for the sport. I’ve had two of their scopes outlast two NightForce scopes! And I can honestly say I really like them. What you dial is what you get. Leupold scopes work well, but don’t expect to find targets in extremely difficult locations during odd light conditions like if you were using a top tier European scope. I do though really like the PR-2 reticle made by Leupold because it’s a .25 mil grid system. Easy to bracket a target between the two hash marks, and it’s cleaner than a reticle with .2 mil hash marks. Simple to remember too…. .25 .5 .75 1 whole number…. Less is better IMO.

Now if you’re planning to go to the extremes in long range shooting, meaning ELR, there is nothing better than a 300 Norma magnum in a 1:8” twist barrel! But you’re gonna wanna want a heavy gun, meaning 18 pounds at a minimum if you plan to be competitive, 23 is better!

NRL Hunter rules state that your rifle must weigh no more than 16 pounds in open heavy, 12 pounds in open light, there is as well as they have a factory rifle division. You can use any caliber you want as long as you make power factor, which is 380,000.

You’ll also need a good ballistic app, range finding binoculars, or binoculars and rangefinder, but if you go that route in NRL Hunter, you’re gonna be eating up the clock and you’re gonna get your butt kicked. I like to use a dope card on my wrist that I can use dry erase markers for the target array on each stage.

Obviously, you’re gonna need a tripod so you can range your targets accurately in an instant, and shot off it. Really Right Stuff makes the best and as well worth the investment. The same thing can be said for your bipod. If you’re gonna be competitive at all, you might as well spend $1000 on an MDT Clyde pod triple pull….. If not, you will be at a disadvantage against all the other shooters that have that set up!

This is an expensive sport to be a top competitor in, or get good at. If you’re cheap like I was you’ll be lucky if you’re a marksman, unless you’re one of the greatest shooters in the world. They can get it done with a factory rifle no matter what everybody else is using in the field! Very few can do that, Jon Pynch one of them and is the only person I’ve seen capable of doing that with the cheapest Factory Tikka rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. But he didn’t start out learning to shoot long range precision shooting with a factory rifle, but a custom gun and his hand loads to boot and shot thousands of rounds.

Obviously, you’re gonna need a really good backpack to hauler gear in. Which means the weight should be distributed onto your hips, and not over your shoulders like you’re in Boot Camp with your Rusack.

You can do very well in the sport with factory loaded ammo, that said most people hand load for their rifles in both sports, PRS and NRL Hunter.

The top 10 shooters in the United States for PRS all shoot a 6 mm Dasher for the most part. And the reason being is, it’s one of the most accurate cartridges in the world, and has no recoil, especially when you put a muzzle brake on it and it weighs 23 pounds.

NRL hunter is a slightly different story since it’s so new, people show up with just about everything. All I can say is the 25 cals are tough to beat considering they have a BC of like .650 and no recoil!

Now hopefully you’ve noticed one thing in common, I keep saying no recoil. That’s because it eliminates the one element that can prevent you from having good fundamentals, and having a good time hitting targets! You won’t want to be shooting a heavy recoiling gun 150 times over a single weekend. As well as if you’re not making hits, you’re not gonna be feeling too great about your performance now are you? Hence why you want extremely good equipment! Sure, a Seekins rifle has just recently come away with a win in NRL Hunter. So don’t let a factory rifle sway you from going that route. It’s just a matter of how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go?

Hopefully that makes sense? I will say this, this sport for the most part doesn’t allow anything larger than 30 caliber, or 338 going over 3200 ft./s unless you’re shooting ELR matches.

Once you get your rifle dialed in to your ammo, and you have the proper gear to compete, these matches will make you a better shooter than 90% of the other people in United States.

This is all great information and certainly a direction to go if I would pursue things further. I appreciate the detail and the time you took outlining this for me. I'm going to pin it for myself as a reference as well.

I should have explained a little better. My intention in this is more so aimed at the hunting aspect and Western hunts making 500-700 yard shots (eventually). I have certainly thought about other competitions geared towards more formal shooting and in my research, I agree that the 6 Dasher is the way I would be going.

The shoot I signed up for is IBS style, but it's a local gun club and has some rules/restrictions. It is aimed at using your hunting rifle's although they do allow either a barrel swap or a chassis swap but not both. No more than 22 power scope, and you can only rest on bags. It's three rounds, 5 shots per round and as many sighters as you need. Each shooter is timed per round though so you can't sit and wait out the wind or shoot sighters all day. The ranges are 100, 200, and 300. Probably short distance for most of you, but I never shoot 300.. not even in my Texas hunts haha. I'm going to be practicing for sure here. I'm going to do the match on target size so I can at least simulate scope view for 300 yards, while shooting at 200 (my home range maxes at 200). I know this won't help me on ballistic and gun performance, but it's better than nothing for sure.

 

[xphunter]

@Ralt71 ,
Nothing wrong with dipping your toe in the water, with what you have.
Is this a 600 yard or 1k match?

 

[xphunter]

@Ralt71 ,
I was assuming 600 or 1000 since you were going to use the 7RM.
A 150, 160 or 162 would be plenty fine for these distances.

I would encourage a smaller cartridge to dip your toe in the water.
One lower in recoil and in concussion

 

[Ralt71]

I would try it.
Elevation you are at?

Here is what the Berger Twist App shows for the bullets I am considering. Let me know your thoughts.

Typical shooting conditions for this hunt is sub 20 degrees, elevation is roughly 1200'


These are two of the bullets Berger recommends for my gun spec; 150 Hunter

168 Hunter




This is the bullet you recommended and one I was really considering as well!


What are your thoughts? You certainly know this better than I do. I preferred the VLD or Hybrid target out of the gate. They don't make a Hybrid Target that my gun would like, all too heavy and need a faster barrel for sure. I also entered the spec's in this calculator for an LRx as it would double as a hunting round for me and I could practice with my full set up. Those bullets are so long it doesn't stabilize most of them very well, that is according to this calculator.

 

[xphunter]

@Ralt71
When I was recommending bullets, I was recommending bullets just for the competition. At first, I thought you were going to be shooting 600 or 1000 yards. Now, that I realize you are shooting out to 300 yards, I would rather you shoot a lighter weight bullet. The ballistic coefficient is not nearly as important out to 300 yards as it is at 600 yards or 1000 yards. The bullet considerations that I would give you for the shooting competition, are not the bullets that I would recommend for you to hunt with.
Earlier, I wanted to know the elevation and the temperature range you’re going to be competing in.
All of that being said, for the competition I would prefer you to get started with a smaller cartridge. As has been noted before, recoil and muzzle blast makes it more difficult to shoot consistent.
I would rather you start off smaller than to be shooting multiple rounds off of a bench, that could end up giving you some problems with flinching or other fundamentals.
If the only rifle you have to compete with is the 7 mag, then I would probably have you shoot a 150 grain bullet. The one you already had picked out.

 

[xphunter]

@Ralt71 ,
Send me a private message, and include your phone number in it. I can talk to you on the phone and answer questions a lot quicker and better.

 

[JD338]

I don't have the LR experience that others here have but I've always felt 400 yards separates the men from the boys. Verification of a drop chart is a must. It takes some time and tweaking but once you have it, you are halfway there.
The wind is the biggest hurdle to get past and trigger time is the only way to figure it out. Over time, you will get there.
If your matches are out to 300 yards, good form and practice will get you shooting respectful scores. The 150 gr 7mm Rem Mag should get you where you want to be.
Best of luck to you.

JD338