Another Accubond Question

[EastTNHunter]

As some of y’all may remember, I’ll be going for my first elk hunt this October. I decided that my 30-06 was more than enough fun for elk, and got rid of my 338WM.

I’ve had a bunch of experience and success with all flavors of Accubonds in the past, from 140 .270Win - 165 .30-06, from powder burn distance to over 200 yards, with pass throughs on all. That is, until I shot a doe a few days ago (TN deer season closer) with a 180 out of my 30-06, and it blew up on the offside shoulder after entering through the onside ribs, and did not exit, blowing into pieces and the deer left minimal blood trail. Shot distance 225ish yards.

Was this just a fluke? My brother uses 180s on deer and has blown through both shoulders while still getting an exit wound.

What are your thoughts on 30-06 using 165gr or 180gr Accubonds for elk? Both shoot VERY accurately, but the 165s go about 200fps faster. I will definitely want the best chance at a a pass through on elk.

 

[DrMike]

In light of many animals I've shot using the AB (and many more I've witnessed shot by others using AB), that sounds like a "one off." It would not put me off, because of what I've witnessed. I do shoot 165 grain ABs in my 30-06. I have no concerns about this bullet. You will love your elk hunt, without a doubt.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't let that deter you. Basically all expanding bullets can have an anomaly.

I've got a long string of successes with the AB on caribou and moose...I'd have no qualms shooting an elk with one.

 

[Blkram]

I've taken several dozen big game animals from wolf to bison with AB's and have not experienced bullet failure to date, in several calibers and bullet weights.

Sounds like an isolated incident. If you are overly concerned check with Nosler to see if they have had other failures reported from the same lot number.

Either the 165 or 180 will work in your 30-06 for elk. I would recommend the heavier bullet weight for the extra mass and penetration for elk.

 

[Nimrod84]

Where are you going - expected shot distance? Without knowing details I would lean towards the 180 grain AB for the same reasons Blkram noted.

Was your deer taken with a canneluar or factory 2nd AB?

Last year I took a 650ish pound bull elk at 100 yards with a 280 Rem. Bullet was a factory 2nd 160 grain AB. The AB had a canneluar and everything forward of the canneluar pretty much disappeared; shank stopped under the hide and retained about 60% weight but had very little expansion. Bullet did not hit bone as far as I could tell. Elk was quartering away, took out both lungs and he went 20 - 25 yds. Result was a few boxes of regular 160 grain ABs on the reloading bench, as the canneluar seemed to create a weak spot.

Just to be clear I do not think my 160gr AccuBond failed; nor did I tell Nosler of its success... It did its job and the venison in the freezer shows it. Weight retention was spot on for marketed claims; but it did not hit bone...

 

[EastTNHunter]

Thank you for the replies, everyone. It was a 2nd without cannelure, so I will likely use a first just in case that was a contributor.

My absolute longest shot will be 400 yards , but I’ll really probably keep it inside of 300 yards. All conditions will have to be perfect and calm, with a rock solid rest to take a shot over 300.

My outfitter is recommending to not take shoulder shots, but to keep it just behind the shoulder to ensure adequate penetration. He stated that of 3 clients last season that took shoulder shots, 2 with 300 WM and 1 with 30-06, none penetrated solidly into the vitals. I’ve been leaning toward using a 180gr bullet for a while, my only concern all along has been the 200fps velocity difference.

 

[SJB358]

In light of many animals I've shot using the AB (and many more I've witnessed shot by others using AB), that sounds like a "one off." It would not put me off, because of what I've witnessed. I do shoot 165 grain ABs in my 30-06. I have no concerns about this bullet. You will love your elk hunt, without a doubt.

Same as Mike, never seen an AccuBond not work as advertised..

It is similar to when I hear about a Partition "blowing up". I am sure it happens, but darned if I have ever seen anything like it on game from deer to elk.

 

[Nimrod84]

180 grain with at least 2600 fps should do nicely and 2700 fps or more is great! Years ago, I used a 30-06 with a 180 grain Nosler Partition to break both shoulders on an 80 yard broadside bull. I think the velocity was around 2650 fps. Bull never took a step, but it was another medium (600ish lbs) guy in Texas.

Edited to add - Reason I asked about location is that Elk in different parts of the country and different sub species weigh significantly different amounts, Rosevelt vs. Rocky Mountain Elk. Michigan bulls seem to run around 100-200 lbs or more than the Elk in the high southwest desserts.

The two bulls I've taken were both 600-650 lbs high dessert Rocky Mountain Elk and they went down very easily. I've hunted with guys using 260 Rems and 18" carbine 30-06's using 165grain SST's and they all put those high desert Elk down very easily. However, if you hunt where you might run into a truly big guy (800+ lbs), and from the sounds of it you very well might, I would not consider the 165 grainers.

The 180 grainers should give straight & deep penetration on quartering shots. The rifle my father used on the Elk hunt last year was a 30-06 with 180 grain Nosler Partitions at 2650-2700 fps (optical chronograph varied by about 50 fps depending on cloud cover) and we were both comfortable out to 300-350 yds with it on 600 or so pound Elk.

 

[EastTNHunter]

My experience (as well as my dad’s, brother’s, and several friends’) has ALWAYS been positive with the AccuBond, and I really have no plan of using anything else.

The 180 goes around 2750fps; 165 goes 2950fps.

 

[6mm Remington]

In light of many animals I've shot using the AB (and many more I've witnessed shot by others using AB), that sounds like a "one off." It would not put me off, because of what I've witnessed. I do shoot 165 grain ABs in my 30-06. I have no concerns about this bullet. You will love your elk hunt, without a doubt.

Same as Mike, never seen an AccuBond not work as advertised..

It is similar to when I hear about a Partition "blowing up". I am sure it happens, but darned if I have ever seen anything like it on game from deer to elk.

What these fine gentlemen said! I've used the Accubonds on quite a few animals in my 30-06 using 165 gr. Accubonds loaded to 2940 fps in my Ruger 1B with the 26" barrel. It has done it's job each and every time. My son has also used it in his 300 WSM, only the 180 gr. AccuBond.

I shot Accubonds, E-tips, and Partitions into gallon water jugs at 25-100-200-300-400- & 500 yards. They all performed very well. The 165 gr. out of my 30-06 did very nicely at 25 yards where it's screaming along pretty good and was found in the 5th water jug. (Most bullets will be recovered in either #5 or #6 even out at 500 yards.) I also shot 90 gr. Accubonds at about 3200 fps (Don't recall exact fps.) out of my 6mm Remington at 25 yards. Now that's a torture test and they expanded and held together very well.

 

[Blkram]

EastTNHunter,

I wouldn't worry so much about the velocity...

There are plenty of mild cartridges that have been performing admirably on heavier game for years; my owm 358 Win with a 220 gr Speer Hotcor has worked very well on elk for years and is only travelling at 2209 fps when it leaves the muzzle of my BLR. And I do not stretch this past the 250 yard mark.

Another good example is from Africa, where PH's download their 375 H&H's from 2500 fps plus to about 2300 fps when using soft bullets on cape buffalo for less expansion and better penetration (hence the creation of the 376 Steyr)...there's a case for consideration here (pun intended! LOL)

Your outfitter is spot on regarding not hitting the shoulder! That is the densest bone of any animal in North America, and the minimum cartridge bullet combination that will reliably penetrate that shoulder to the vitals for a clean harvest is the 250 gr bullet from the 338 Win Mag, which you no longer have. Your 30-06 will still work just fine!

Have fun, enjoy your hunt, and wait for the right shot presentation, place your bullet accurately and you will be enjoying some very tasty eating and have a great memory to enjoy in the years to come!

 

[PJGunner]

Well, first off my go to elk rifle is a .35 Whelen with 225 gr. TSX bullets. My back up rifle is usually a 30-06, a custom Mauser that it a tack driver with the 165 gr. AccuBond. A couple of years back I decided to use it instead of the Whelen. I shot an elk quartering away in the short ribs and the bullets (we think) ended up in the left lung. The elk went maybe 30 or 40 feet and expired. Granted a study of one doesn't mean much other than the elk died. Would I use it on an elk hunt again? I did carry it on one of the three days of my last hunt which ended 12/30/17. Took the Whelen the first day, the 06 the next and the Whelen on the last day. I would have had no qualms using that 165 gr. 06 load on an elk, if I'd seen one that day.
Paul B.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I have seen more elk stop bullets than any other animal. That list includes Accubonds, Partitions, TTSXs, Sciroccos. All good elk bullets. If you are removing a bullet from a dead elk I wouldn’t worry about a pass through.

I have used a 30-06 with 180 Partitions, 180 Accubonds, and 165 Accubonds on elk. I have used a 7 Mashburn Mag with 160 Accubonds on elk. They all worked great!


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[EastTNHunter]

I’m going to try them both out to 400 yards at the range and see which does better. They’ve both shot equally well out to 250 yards in the past. That will likely be the determining factor.

 

[Silent Sam]

I can't believe a 165 at 2900 would be any better than a 180 at 2700 on an elk. I use the 180's in my 30-06. Haven't hunted elk with that load but have put down many large (300lb+) south Texas hogs and have yet to recover a bullet and the hogs drop pretty quickly. Hogs aren't elk but they're a good bit tougher than deer.

 

[SJB358]

I can't believe a 165 at 2900 would be any better than a 180 at 2700 on an elk. I use the 180's in my 30-06. Haven't hunted elk with that load but have put down many large (300lb+) south Texas hogs and have yet to recover a bullet and the hogs drop pretty quickly. Hogs aren't elk but they're a good bit tougher than deer.

I don’t necessarily think they are better but they do stretch the string a little tighter for a rifle sighted in without dials or a BDC. Not a big deal but the 165 AB at 2900 opened my eyes to how lethal and bone crushing the old horse could be.

 

[salmonchaser]

I poked quite a few elk with an 06 and 180 partitions between 1967 and 80. Moved up to bigger guns after that. My brother has stuck with the 06 and 180 grain partitions. The last few years with the AccuBond. I think he's killed about 40 elk with the 06.


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[EastTNHunter]

I can't believe a 165 at 2900 would be any better than a 180 at 2700 on an elk. I use the 180's in my 30-06. Haven't hunted elk with that load but have put down many large (300lb+) south Texas hogs and have yet to recover a bullet and the hogs drop pretty quickly. Hogs aren't elk but they're a good bit tougher than deer.

I don’t necessarily think they are better but they do stretch the string a little tighter for a rifle sighted in without dials or a BDC. Not a big deal but the 165 AB at 2900 opened my eyes to how lethal and bone crushing the old horse could be.

So, do I understand that you prefer the 165?

 

[EastTNHunter]

I can't believe a 165 at 2900 would be any better than a 180 at 2700 on an elk. I use the 180's in my 30-06. Haven't hunted elk with that load but have put down many large (300lb+) south Texas hogs and have yet to recover a bullet and the hogs drop pretty quickly. Hogs aren't elk but they're a good bit tougher than deer.

I don’t necessarily think they are better but they do stretch the string a little tighter for a rifle sighted in without dials or a BDC. Not a big deal but the 165 AB at 2900 opened my eyes to how lethal and bone crushing the old horse could be.

So, do I understand that you prefer the 165?

 

[35 Whelen]

You might want to consider a peek at this new Nosler 190 gr ABLR, the 06 will send them in that 2700/2750 ish range hand loaded. That bullets 600 BC would bring serious long range advantages to the table, and at your 400yd max shot you mentioned give you a pretty decent edge over a lot of these other bullets with 400ish BC's. Even 500yds with the 190gr ABLR's is realistic with a good rest, if you do your part. And most
likely someone that shoots all the time and is super firmilar with his rifle (Scotty?) could likely pull it off at 600 yds? Although I really think that is unrealistic for the avg Joe hunter. And 400 yds is a good limit for most folks. We are looking at hunting Elk this fall as well and I will take a 270 loaded with 150gr ABLRs, and my 35 Whelen. However if I was limited to one gun I would leave them both at home; and simply take " old Gretchen" my trusted Model 70 Featherweight in 30/06 with a box of 190gr ABLRs and feel very confident I had enough gun and the right bullet! Check em out they would give you a nice "edge" at 400 yds. And best of luck to you on a big bull!
E