BenchSource question

[TackDriver284]

I got the BenchSource annealer today, read instructions and saw many videos on you Tube and pretty much have an understanding on how to set it up properly and anneal. My question is the instructions says to deprime fired brass to make sure its not mixed with a live primer before annealing. I read on many articles that most shooters tumble the brass and polish them, then anneal and then size them afterwards and prep cases, etc. It's what I wanted to do, but do I have to de-prime fired primers or just do it after annealing to save time and less work?

 

[bill smith]

it sounds to me like an exaggerated safety concern. they want you make sure you have not inadvertently mixed cases which have live, as well as fired, primers. from the standpoint of the annealing process it doesn't matter whether the case is de-primed or not.

 

[drakehammer]

I would tumble fired brass or clean the cases however you want before annealing. Then resize and deprime.


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[SJB358]

I anneal, then deprime and clean them.. never had a problem.

 

[drakehammer]

David taught me to aim one flame low on the shoulder and one high one the shoulder. Never directly in the neck. You want heat to travel up the neck from the shoulder. Just remember that not enough is better than too much.


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[jimbires]

remember you can not tell how well you anneal by the way the case looks. a lot of my brass shows no sign of being heated .

I've annealed both clean and dirty brass . clean brass I can see the heat line walk down the case easier than on dirty brass . clean brass does not discolor as much as dirty brass .

I don't see any difference with or without a primer . I'd say this is just a safety measure .

annealed brass will feel rough in the neck . it's almost like the heat stands up the grains of the brass . after annealing I use a brass cleaning brush on my case cleaner to brush the necks . I also dip the case neck before resizing and dip the bullet base before I seat .

 

[TackDriver284]

If I were to anneal and feel that the dwell time is too short and has not burnt off the Tempilaq paint as I wanted, can I re-anneal the same brass over and over until I get it to the correct dwell time ? Or its just one pass only for safety measures?

 

[SJB358]

You can run it again. No need to wait, other than burning your fingers :mrgreen:

 

[Dr. Vette]

I deprime, and then run them through my stainless media tumbler. If you don't, I find it much harder to "read" as there always seems to be a bit of powder that wants to burn. It's minimal, but noticeable.

I'm not sure how depriming them after vs before would save any time, but I always deprime as a step unto itself anyway using a universal depriming die.

 

[truck driver]

You can run it again. No need to wait, other than burning your fingers :mrgreen:

Sounds like someone speaking with experience. Nothing like toasted fingers. :wink:

 

[TackDriver284]

I woke up early to two cups of coffee and annealed for the first time in my man cave , boy did I tell you how long it took me after all that double checking where flame is pointing at, length, and height of torch heads, angles, etc. I will post some pics on results on new .270 Remington brass I found up on a shelf that I do not use, there are 50 pieces in a bag that a friend left behind before he moved up north. I used 9 pieces for the test. But remember I am still an annealing newbie.

 

[drakehammer]

When you post pics, try to get a pic of the flame orientation, and the Tempilaq before and after if possible. Glad you're in business.


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[TackDriver284]

When you post pics, try to get a pic of the flame orientation, and the Tempilaq before and after if possible. Glad you're in business.
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I forgot to get the flame orientation pics and the "Tempilaq before" but I will try again later and get used to the annealing before trying out my shooting brass. I made sure the torchheads was parallel to the top of the plate and aimed at the midpoint of the shoulder area and pencil point flame is about half to 3/4 inches from the shoulder. At first it was a little further, but after adjusting on second batch of 3 cases, I put the flame a little closer.

These are new .270 Rem brass I found on top of a shelf that I don't use, a friend left them behind before he moved up north. I painted 650 Tempi on the neck / shoulder junction to halfway down the case and inside of case mouths, and 400 Tempi midway of case body to case head.

Order of cases are from left to right. The first and left case is at 3 seconds, then 3 and a half and then 4 seconds.

The bottom three is 3 , 4 and 5 seconds from left to right to see how far heat traveled down the case and to check the Tempilaq burn on the cases. The longer the burn, the more Tempilaq paint is burned off. Made minor flame adjustments at this point to put flame closer to the shoulders.

Final results without the Tempilaq, left case is at 3 seconds, then 4 seconds, and last two cases at 5 seconds. I noticed that the color of the necks of the last two cases which was annealed at 5 seconds has changed to a charcoal grey color, is that an indication of "too hot"? I assume 2nd case from the left , 4 seconds, is the correct dwell time / color?

All of my calibers are short necked unlike the .270 which I do not shoot, longer necks need to have the flame pointed a little higher on the shoulder to be able to anneal the longer necks, am I correct?

Advise please. Thanks

 

[greenheadcaller]

If I were to anneal and feel that the dwell time is too short and has not burnt off the Tempilaq paint as I wanted, can I re-anneal the same brass over and over until I get it to the correct dwell time ? Or its just one pass only for safety measures?

Yes, but .... be sure to realize that a hot case will get to temp sooner than a room temp case. Meaning, if you have your machine dwell time set based off the time it takes to properly anneal a room temp case, and then slap a hot one in it using the same dwell time...the hot one will likely be over annealed. (Let them cool first before rerunning, if what you are trying to accomplish is a)getting the machine dwell time set, or b) rerunning cases into a machine set for room temp brass)

Rerunning an under annealed cases is not a problem as long as they aren't over annealed in the process. An over annealed case is trash, rerunning won't bring it back.

 

[greenheadcaller]

A tip that works for me when setting up my benchsource dwell time.

I put the tempilaq inside the (clean) neck all the way around. I set the dwell time to that changing. It's easier for me to see the color change as it happens looking inside the neck with good lighting looking from above, than it is staring into the flame area at a rotating strip. I want to see the tempilaq color change as it happens, and it happens fast when it get to temp. It's a much more repeatable set up process for me. Personal pref...ymmv

(and if you are turning your necks, or even if you aren't, the necks get there first .... get the brass on the move as soon as the inside neck tempilaq changes and you're set)

Regarding your flame location question and longer/shorter neck sizes. The necks get there first even with the flames on the shoulder, all sizes. (or put another way, don't worry about your necks not getting done, do worry about your necks getting overdone)

Regarding you question of which three brass colors look right. Here is the way I would look at those three, if my only choices ...I choose the one on the left (the shortestdwell time)..... the tempilaq changed, it is annealed. The others were left in one to two seconds too long. Get them on the move as soon as tempilaq changes.

Once you get the set up figured out, it will become easy. Smart of you to take a few too far to see outcomes too. Take one of those five second pieces and gently squeeze the neck with a small pliers, then do the same with a properly annealed case. You will likely feel the difference.

hope this helps.

 

[Dr. Vette]

I would agree with greenheadcaller.

It works better to put the Tempilaq inside the neck.
As SOON as it burns, that's it. Everyone says to look for a color change; in my experience, that means when it goes from color to black. Of note, I will put the higher heat (750) on the outside of the neck on occasion to be sure I don't overdo it. Extra time = extra chance of overdoing it, and you don't need that. Even your 3 second cases are done. Now I want to see 2 and 2.5 seconds for comparison.

I also recommend really overdoing some as a test just to see what they're like. You will see how soft the brass can become, and it's an education.

I have stopped putting Tempilaq on the body, because even if I anneal a case for a loooooong time as a test I haven't gotten the heat to move too far down the case.

 

[drakehammer]

I've personally never used tempilaq. I set mine up and observe under low / no light. When you see the first indication of brass starting to "glow" it should be moving out of the flame. In fact you should move it out just before this. It's a safe place to be.


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[TackDriver284]

I've personally never used tempilaq. I set mine up and observe under low / no light. When you see the first indication of brass starting to "glow" it should be moving out of the flame. In fact you should move it out just before this. It's a safe place to be.
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Is it similar to this? I think the dwell on this one is about a second too long at the beginning, you can see the little orange flame above the mouths of cases

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXzARG5Qz0

 

[TackDriver284]

Thanks all for the advises. Just need to do my part and practice.

 

[drakehammer]

Tack I'm glad you posted this pic. No it isn't right. I was wondering why your times were so long. Once you adjust your flame distance in to the brass where the bright sharp tip is just touching, your times will be cut to between setting 1-2 I believe. I sent you my phone # in pm.


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