Boone and Crockett on Long Range Shooting

[Songdog]

A few years ago a buddy of mine, just a local guy, drew a bighorn sheep tag for an area just north of town, where we both hunt mule deer often.

He made over 20 scouting trips, pared his weight down, hunted hard and ended up with... The World's Record "California" bighorn ram. What a beast.... No big dollars involved. Lots of hard hunting involved. Twenty trips on foot, into some rugged country here above the Columbia. Steep, really steep country. He got his ram!

It's in the record books, and is one mighty impressive trophy indeed. The whole local hunting community here was very happy for him, knowing that he'd "done it right" the very epitome of Fair Chase hunting.

Guy

Would it change anything if he had shot that ram at 612 yards after all that work?

That's exactly my point.... he did it right. But, "the Book" doesn't take any of that into account.... only the horns.

A guy could do the same thing and kill a 200" Muley with a 588 yard shot after all that work. Another guy, can provide his local deer with Antler King food plots, and mineral lick supplements. Keep track of them for months using trail cams. Set-up his tree stand a week in advance.... and sluce a 200" home grown Muley 1000 yards from his porch.

They both go in the book the same....

Which is a more respectable animal?

 

[big rifle man]

Songdog, You're telling me that based on experience it's not an unethical shot even in the results are less than desirable is perfectly OK? Sorry, that's the reason long range shooting on a live animal is a problem in my mind. I've seen many "experienced" people on my club's six hundred range that aren't having a good day but do their best as their shooting at paper targets. Looking at the groups on a windy day (and that's only one problem) tells me that they should not be shooting at live game. I've seen injured animals in the field and I've also seen a number of friends take shots that would be better off not taken, but they were taken because the animal was seen and there was a possibility of a takedown. For every one hunter that has the experience to do what you are saying their are 300 that shouldn't. A friend of mine has a son that spent time as a marine sniper in Bagdad and I'd love to have him sit down and talk with you about long range shooting.

 

[Songdog]

That means that for every one guy that can hit a running deer.... 300 can't.

Which shot do you think is taken more often by Joe Hunter?

A 100 yard shot at a running deer....

A 600 yard shot at a completely unaware animal...

For me, I KNOW I wouldn't be taking that moving shot. I'm one of the 300 in that department.....

Know your limits.... ALL your limits.... Not just your "Max Range"....

There are slob hunters everywhere giving us all a bad name. They carry bows, and front-stuffers, and lever guns, and ARs, and Long Range .338 Lapuas. Thy take shots they shouldn't take.... believing in luck, or advertising, or what some dude said on the internet. They don't take the time to learn their craft.... then they do things they shouldn't.... when a little practice would've let them know they couldn't.

I respect every hunter here.... to the man. I used to hassle the guys who baited bears.... I still think it's a pansy azz way to shoot an awesome animal. I talked bad about the act.... and the guys who'd be so low as to participate. The. I realized I was wrong.... and out of line to impose my hunting belief system (ethics?) on another group of hunters. We need to back the hell off each other, and encourage conservation, education, enjoyment, and clean kills.

I'm the only one who has to look at me in the mirror before bed.... so I'm going to hunt and kill in a matter that allows me to do so with a clear heart. I would encourage everyone else to do the same. The only one that should be deciding if it was a good ethical shot.... is the nut behind the trigger.

 

[Vince]

That means that for every one guy that can hit a running deer.... 300 can't.

Which shot do you think is taken more often by Joe Hunter?

A 100 yard shot at a running deer....

A 600 yard shot at a completely unaware animal...

For me, I KNOW I wouldn't be taking that moving shot. I'm one of the 300 in that department.....

Know your limits.... ALL your limits.... Not just your "Max Range"....

There are slob hunters everywhere giving us all a bad name. They carry bows, and front-stuffers, and lever guns, and ARs, and Long Range .338 Lapuas. Thy take shots they shouldn't take.... believing in luck, or advertising, or what some dude said on the internet. They don't take the time to learn their craft.... then they do things they shouldn't.... when a little practice would've let them know they couldn't.

I respect every hunter here.... to the man. I used to hassle the guys who baited bears.... I still think it's a pansy azz way to shoot an awesome animal. I talked bad about the act.... and the guys who'd be so low as to participate. The. I realized I was wrong.... and out of line to impose my hunting belief system (ethics?) on another group of hunters. We need to back the hell off each other, and encourage conservation, education, enjoyment, and clean kills.

I'm the only one who has to look at me in the mirror before bed.... so I'm going to hunt and kill in a matter that allows me to do so with a clear heart. I would encourage everyone else to do the same. The only one that should be deciding if it was a good ethical shot.... is the nut behind the trigger.

Great post!

 

[Songdog]

PS......

I'm not advocating shooting BG this far away.... and it's beyond my personal limit.... but...

1/2 mile..... Cold round, only round of the day couple weeks ago... 7-9mph wind from 8:00.... Pretty sure that woulda worked...

 

[Guy Miner]

Would it change anything if he had shot that ram at 612 yards after all that work?


Sure, then I'd be impressed with his marksmanship too! :grin:

 

[Guy Miner]

That means that for every one guy that can hit a running deer.... 300 can't.

Which shot do you think is taken more often by Joe Hunter?

A 100 yard shot at a running deer....

A 600 yard shot at a completely unaware animal...

For me, I KNOW I wouldn't be taking that moving shot. I'm one of the 300 in that department.....

Know your limits.... ALL your limits.... Not just your "Max Range"....

There are slob hunters everywhere giving us all a bad name. They carry bows, and front-stuffers, and lever guns, and ARs, and Long Range .338 Lapuas. Thy take shots they shouldn't take.... believing in luck, or advertising, or what some dude said on the internet. They don't take the time to learn their craft.... then they do things they shouldn't.... when a little practice would've let them know they couldn't.

I respect every hunter here.... to the man. I used to hassle the guys who baited bears.... I still think it's a pansy azz way to shoot an awesome animal. I talked bad about the act.... and the guys who'd be so low as to participate. The. I realized I was wrong.... and out of line to impose my hunting belief system (ethics?) on another group of hunters. We need to back the hell off each other, and encourage conservation, education, enjoyment, and clean kills.

I'm the only one who has to look at me in the mirror before bed.... so I'm going to hunt and kill in a matter that allows me to do so with a clear heart. I would encourage everyone else to do the same. The only one that should be deciding if it was a good ethical shot.... is the nut behind the trigger.

I agree with much of what you're saying Songdog. You're not the only one here who can shoot well at range... And has. :grin:

BTW, someday I want to try that bear-baiting stuff. In the thick forests, it seems to be a good way to go. Not legal here in Washington though. Out here I just use good ol "spot & stalk." I'd think sitting silently, letting the bear work in close, then hammering him with a couple of .44 mag handgun slugs, would be a pretty exciting hunt.

Hunting ethics are pretty ephemeral I've found. What's normal in one area is looked on with disgust or is an arrestable offense somewhere else. Leaves me a little vague on where to draw the line...

Guy

 

[Vince]

That means that for every one guy that can hit a running deer.... 300 can't.

Which shot do you think is taken more often by Joe Hunter?

A 100 yard shot at a running deer....

A 600 yard shot at a completely unaware animal...

For me, I KNOW I wouldn't be taking that moving shot. I'm one of the 300 in that department.....

Know your limits.... ALL your limits.... Not just your "Max Range"....

There are slob hunters everywhere giving us all a bad name. They carry bows, and front-stuffers, and lever guns, and ARs, and Long Range .338 Lapuas. Thy take shots they shouldn't take.... believing in luck, or advertising, or what some dude said on the internet. They don't take the time to learn their craft.... then they do things they shouldn't.... when a little practice would've let them know they couldn't.

I respect every hunter here.... to the man. I used to hassle the guys who baited bears.... I still think it's a pansy azz way to shoot an awesome animal. I talked bad about the act.... and the guys who'd be so low as to participate. The. I realized I was wrong.... and out of line to impose my hunting belief system (ethics?) on another group of hunters. We need to back the hell off each other, and encourage conservation, education, enjoyment, and clean kills.

I'm the only one who has to look at me in the mirror before bed.... so I'm going to hunt and kill in a matter that allows me to do so with a clear heart. I would encourage everyone else to do the same. The only one that should be deciding if it was a good ethical shot.... is the nut behind the trigger.

I agree with much of what you're saying Songdog. You're not the only one here who can shoot well at range... And has. :grin:

BTW, someday I want to try that bear-baiting stuff. In the thick forests, it seems to be a good way to go. Not legal here in Washington though. Out here I just use good ol "spot & stalk." I'd think sitting silently, letting the bear work in close, then hammering him with a couple of .44 mag handgun slugs, would be a pretty exciting hunt.

Hunting ethics are pretty ephemeral I've found. What's normal in one area is looked on with disgust or is an arrestable offense somewhere else. Leaves me a little vague on where to draw the line...

Guy

The last paragraph nails it.

Far too often I've had people from other parts of the world say they'd never shoot at an animal at 400 Yards. Put a deer in their sights at that distance, with no reasonable way to get closer, and they will be the first ones slinging lead oftentimes. Never mind that they've never practiced at that distance.

I've seen highly accomplished people, in their field, expect that because they can shoot at 100 yards they should be able to hit something way out there. Unless they get real lucky, they can't.

So that begs the question, who is more honest? The hunter that practices, and maybe looks,for that long range opportunity or the hunter that sights in once a year, to confirm zero, and shoots at animals further than he has practiced?

Boone & Crockett has fornicated the canine on this I think. They do more to drive the competitive aspect of hunting than any other group I fear. Hunting is not, to me, a competition between men. It is a competition between a man, or woman, to live and hunt in nature, on nature's terms, against an animal whose survival instinct is hardwired far better than we could ever hope to be.

Vince

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am not calling anyone out or reflecting on anything but my own experiences with hunting primarily deer and later elk since 1958, when I was 15 years old. For over 20 of those years, I hunted with a bunch of friends whom I had worked with in California. I met most of them when I was working at Mattel Toy in the late 1970's-early 80's. I moved to Utah in 1983 and hunted with about 15 of these friends in Utah, every year for 20 years. I also hunted with some of them in Arizona and Wyoming for a few hunts.

None of these guys were trophy hunters except by exception or when they got lucky. All of these guys had shot at the range and had hunted all of their lives. Most of them were my age and had similar experiences hunting and fishing for most of their lives. All of them were serious hunters and shot regularly at the range throughout the year to keep their skills sharp. All of them owned several reputable brand rifles and shotguns for hunting.

What is interesting about this group is that none of us ever shot a deer over 180 (B&C) inches and none of us shot at deer or elk at more than 350 or so yards. Most of these guys had been in the Army or Marines and nearly all of them had shot many deer over the years and had probably killed more than 40 deer each in their lifetimes.

To me these guys are pretty representative of western deer hunters who work at another job and hunt maybe 2 weeks a year. However, they represent over 400+ years of deer hunting between all of them and they are pretty much average hunters. With jobs and families etc.

What is interesting to me is that these guys never shot at over their capabilities of range and ability and that none of us ever shot a record book animal, ever! I shoot every week when I am capable of doing so and I still can shoot groups at a bench of under 1 inch at 200 yards with any of my rifles that will do it.

I read about these guys on here who claim to shoot coyotes and game animals at 1600 yards which is a mile! Just once, I would like to shoot ide by side with one of these supermen and feel truly humbled. So far there are no takers and I can't travel?

 

[Dwh7271]

Songdog, that was a great post. Well said.

Hunting ethics are pretty ephemeral I've found. What's normal in one area is looked on with disgust or is an arrestable offense somewhere else. Leaves me a little vague on where to draw the line...

Again, Guy kind of cut to the heart of the matter. Can't say it better than that.

Boone & Crockett has fornicated the canine on this I think.

Now that one made me blow Coca-cola on the screen. Thanks Vince!

 

[Guy Miner]

OT3, sounds like you hunted with a great group of guys.

 

[Vince]

One is blessed if he or she can find such a group.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[Oldtrader3]

Thanks guys, it was great while it lasted. Many of these guys have passed on in the past 15 years but I still think about our years together and the goods times that we had. I would not trade those times for anything.

 

[big rifle man]

Charlie, I echo your sentiments. I had two good hunting buddies. One passed on, I've been hunting with my second buddy for 42 years. Many many great times.