Brass life question....

[Anonymous]

I've got a small quantity of Remington once fired factory brass.

I checked it and trimmed it back to trim length and loaded it up. After the second firing I checked the length after sizing and it was over max length a second time.

Second trimming and I noticed the primers were pretty easy to seat. Maybe not "loose" but certainly getting there.

In my past experience with Nosler and Federal brass, once I went to trim length I could fire 2-4x before I need to trim again and primer pockets were still in good shape after 5x.

Is this normal for Remington brass? Just soft? The loads are strictly middling- at a grain below max.

 

[Dwh7271]

I can only speak from one cartridge experience, 250 Savage, and yes, it does seem soft and grew. So....I Ackleyed it. :grin: Haven't had any length issues now with the improved brass. Now I only use the Rem brass in the 250 AI and only then because for quite a while their seasonal run was the only true 250 brass around.
I also lost a few primer pockets in the original 250, none since.
Don't know if that helps you.

 

[Nimrod84]

Remington brass can vary and I think it is a major bottleneck in their ammo production. Such that they appear to play around with the hardness to speed up production of certain cartridges. Without knowing your particulars such as brass age or cartridge, I'll give a story...

A number of years ago (10+), factory Remington 150 grain Core-Lokt's shot 1/2"-3/4" groups out of my 280 Remington and I could maintain the same level of accuracy reloading the cases 5-6 times. About 10 years ago the factory ammo started grouping between 1"-1.25" and reloads weren't doing any better. This year I tried a box of the old ammo and it was grouping sub-MOA again and the brass was working great for my reloads. This year I also had some 10+ year old factory 30-06 Remington ammo that split their necks on the first firing (about 60%). The old 30-06 and 280 Remington ammo were stored together.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input- I haven't used Remington brass much at all, mostly Nosler and Federal.

It seems this isn't really out of the ordinary. The next go round will be the third firing and I'll likely just pitch them.

 

[Nimrod84]

Hodgeman, I won't argue your course of action.

But, I should add that the old Remington 280 brass is my favorite brass. Most of my 30-06 loads used Remington brass, but I do find that some boxes of brass don't shoot worth 25 cents while others shoot great with otherwise same components. It really seems like production quantity needs tend to trump consistency.

 

[ShadeTree]

Not been my experience at all, but I have a significant supply of older factory Remington brass so maybe it's the good stuff. I've had excellent longevity with Remington cases. I anneal my cases, full length resize, and got 15-18 reloads out of the last small batch I was using in my 6MM before they eventually succumbed to split necks.

 

[cloverleaf]

I can only speak from one cartridge experience, 250 Savage, and yes, it does seem soft and grew. So....I Ackleyed it. :grin: Haven't had any length issues now with the improved brass. Now I only use the Rem brass in the 250 AI and only then because for quite a while their seasonal run was the only true 250 brass around.
I also lost a few primer pockets in the original 250, none since.
Don't know if that helps you.

Cr@p- another reason to get me a 250 Ackley . My experience with the 250 Savage and remmington brass finds me quickly at max length. Maybe 2 firings...but to be honest they were pretty close to max loads. CL

 

[Polaris]

Remington brass has been hit and miss for me. Have had some lots last almost indefinitely, some others fail within 3 or 4 firings, all in the same rifle with the same loads. Ditto for Winchester. I have also gotten some of my best accuracy ever out of Remington brass.

I now stick to PRVI paritzan, or Norma/Nosler in that order. I feel the PRVI is superior in terms of longevity, the Nosler in terms of consistency and user friendliness out of the box. I shoot a lot of oddball metrics, and PRVI makes those and longevity is a big selling point as these calibers are often "buy it when you find it" propositions.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Have had good results with Remington brass over the years until this past year. My son bought some 7x57 brass and it was very hard, over length and had to set the shoulder back to get it to chamber. More prep work than I remember ever doing with Remington before. Guess the older brass was better lots and the newer wasn't. I have several cases for different calibers so will keep using Remington (along with others) Dan.

 

[PJGunner]

I think some cartridges are more prone to stretching that others. I've been playing with the 7x57 Mauser round for a while now and I literally have to trim after each firing, and that includes new factory ammo. IIRC, Ken Waters also brought this problem op when he did his Pet Loads article on the 7x57. Foe me it made no difference whether the brass was Federal, Remington or Winchester. They all grew with each firing and did it in three separate rifles.
There was one batch of Remington .308 brass that split necks. Brand new brass and necks split without even being shot. I lost almost half of the 200 rounds before I pulled the bullets, salvaged the powder and primers and annealed the brass that hadn't split. They worked just fine after that and I got five of more reloads from that brass.
I found two good buys on Remington and Winchester brass for the 7x57 and bought both. Haven't had any problems with either other than the normal case stretching that seems to be inherent in that case.
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

Remington ranks among my least favourite brass. In no small measure, this is due to the inconsistent product. I've had seriously deformed brass (including brass with no flash hold) and I've had brass that was exceptionally hard. That has created a somewhat jaundiced view of Remington product for me.

 

[hunt127588]

Annealing is key to accuracy.

 

[Cleveland48]

I have not used Remington brass since I owned a 260 Rem back in 2008. Brass wasn’t just great, but I also didn’t know near as much about what to look for as I do now. I eventually just started sizing hornady 7mm08 brass down to 260. I will agree that the annealing has worked great for me since I started it over last summer. Have not had a neck split yet annealing after every firing. Accuracy also went up and I believe my sd’s went down due to consistent neck tension. I also use prvi brass in my 9.3x62, and I’m quite fond of it. Seems very tough for a great price to boot.


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[rugerfan]

Just wondering about these brass life comments and the quality of today's brass.....VERY interesting reading.
Just adding to comment as food for thought; but does anyone here think that some of the major ammo companies may produce boxed ammo to be fired once and discarded?
And then possibly produce better brass for reloaders to purchase?
The above being stated /asked as to the fact that both ammo manufacturing and reloading supply products are BOTH major sources of profit to the manufacture.
Just wondering about this, not stating it as fact whatsoever; but I am leaning to believe that the "old days" of utmost quality first has been set aside to profit first with reasonable quality coming in second...some cases third...(pun intended)

 

[Dwh7271]

Interesting question.
I don’t think it would be very economically smart to have two distinct brass types, one for fire and toss, one for reloaders. Just my opinion though.
There’s some pretty terrific brass out there in my opinion.
I kind of three tier it in my mind.
Top being RWS, Lapua and now Alpha. Haven’t tried Peterson but have heard good things.

 

[Nimrod84]

Rugerfan,

I'm with Dwh7271, but I think some manufacturers will change things for Military vs cheap hunting vs premium hunting or match use. For example Federal makes the 308 WIN / 7.62 Nato in all their lines from the American Eagle, premium (nickel plated) line, Gold match line and also for the military (Lake City).

So just to restate, where I'm with Dwh7271 is that I don't think manufacturers specifically setout to make once and chuck brass (some military production is once and chuck like Denver WWII production); but I do believe that QC controls and extra steps can and do change for different "brands" or grades of American commercial manufacturers.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting question.
I don’t think it would be very economically smart to have two distinct brass types, one for fire and toss, one for reloaders. Just my opinion though.
There’s some pretty terrific brass out there in my opinion.
I kind of three tier it in my mind.
Top being RWS, Lapua and now Alpha. Haven’t tried Peterson but have heard good things.

I agree, I think it's more of a matter of target market.

Remington and Winchester view supplying brass and components to handloaders as an "add on" business with products they are already making for their main market.

Other companies like Nosler, Alpha, Hornady, etc. all view the handloading market as their priority even though they may also produce ammunition as a secondary market. Makes sense that they produce better brass on average.

I would wager that Winchester and Remington produce 10x (or more) the brass for their own ammunition than they sell as components- the bulk of it is pitched after being fired once.

 

[DrMike]

Interesting question.
I don’t think it would be very economically smart to have two distinct brass types, one for fire and toss, one for reloaders. Just my opinion though.
There’s some pretty terrific brass out there in my opinion.
I kind of three tier it in my mind.
Top being RWS, Lapua and now Alpha. Haven’t tried Peterson but have heard good things.

I agree, I think it's more of a matter of target market.

Remington and Winchester view supplying brass and components to handloaders as an "add on" business with products they are already making for their main market.

Other companies like Nosler, Alpha, Hornady, etc. all view the handloading market as their priority even though they may also produce ammunition as a secondary market. Makes sense that they produce better brass on average.

I would wager that Winchester and Remington produce 10x (or more) the brass for their own ammunition than they sell as components- the bulk of it is pitched after being fired once.

I'm certain this is spot on. The final sales target for Olin/Winchester, Federal and/or Remington is those purchasing ammunition. A sizable portion of that market is no doubt government sales. Companies such as Nosler began with a focus on the components market and gradually expanded into the ammunition market. It would not be economically advantageous to make components for different markets.

 

[PJGunner]

"I would wager that Winchester and Remington produce 10x (or more) the brass for their own ammunition than they sell as components- the bulk of it is pitched after being fired once."

You'd probably win that bet. The times I've helped out on sighting in days at the range, I sometimes came home with as much as 100 rounds of once fired brass from those once a year at the range shooters who just threw their brass away. Put it this way, I doubt I'll ever have to buy brass for most of what I shoot.
Paul B.

 

[rugerfan]

Great feedback/discussion on the topic.

I have been weighing different brass as a "home test" and found military brass to be all over in weight....boxed shooting ammo a little closer...and match grade new brass to be much closer in weight....This was the reason for asking...

What is opinion on how much weight difference in the brass (other basics being the same) will affect shot groupings at 200 yards?

I am new to forum...and reloading as well....only been reloading a few years...starting to venture into it just a little deeper, one step at a time.

I really appreciate the comments and any help..advice...etc...