Browning A-Bolt II = Rebarrel

I can't wait to see how this rifle is made better by Biesen, because it's pretty dang nice already! Congrats, Kelly!

When I get out there in 2013, I would like very much to put at least one more pre-64 next to that one and take some pics. :)
 
Tom,

It will happen. Seriously doubt I'll have all the pieces and Beisen's fee ready by fall of 2013. Your .300H&H and that .270 will make a fine pair in the CO Rockies. Perhaps there will be some ivory tipped elk racks to complete the vision as well.
 
Kelly,

Great project. You're doing well. I'm certain that is going to be one beautiful firearm when you are finished.
 
Thank you much Dr. Mike. Lots of things to think about yet, but one of the most important piece is the glass. Right now, debating real hard within on 3 different scopes...lol
 
Look for a sale by Midwest Gun Works. They are a Browning Certified Warrantee Center and often put old A-Bolt Medallion and Hunter stocks on clearance sale, cheap! Also, sometimes you can get a newer stock with perfect finish on Ebay pretty cheap. Otherwise, getting the Polyurethane off and refinishing is a messy job with chemical stripping on Brownings.
 
That rifle is very sharp Kelly. Couldn't have picked a better one! Looking forward to hearing how it shoots.
 
Kelly

you did not make this easy to find --browning./win 70 ? LOL As I mentioned to Tom i have a rare day off and tried to log in on our forum and apparently Aleena has said something over there she doesnt want me to see, as she gave me the wrong info in order to log on LOL

Congratulations Kelly, that is and will be a rifle you will cherish forever and then your son will also be able to use it some day--many years from now. It will be a rifle that stays in the family. Also glad you were able to get a commitment from Spokane, that alone is an accomplishment. I also understand our youngest daughter may have had a hand in all this, so it is good to know her mother has taught her well.

All BS aside--congratulations Kelly, I am very happy for you. I also understand you are deciding on a scope and will advise Aleena when you have decided, to see if she can get it at manufactures cost for you. She of course will be telling you Swarovski and I will be telling you S & B, Scotty will be selling minox to you, and I am sure their are some Leupold salesmen on the forum--good luck sir.

on an aside we certainly will be praying for all your neighbors caught up in the wildfires of Colorado, and hope your father remains safe in his location

Jerry
 
Jerry,


First I want to say its darn good to hear from you!!! Been a long time. Sorry about the "hidden" thread. lol It just sort of happened that way.

As to the Abolt/M70 aspect, its sure been a ride.... Turning lemon's into lemonade though. Indeed, if it wasn't for your wife and daughter, I would have never found this rifle nor the additional 2 places to look for a Pre-64. A very huge thanks to both of them and yourself for allowing Aleena time to PM this info to me. Was pretty much a no brainer on this specific rifle once I looked over what was available versus cost. Jumped through a few hoops to make it happen and am very glad I did. You are correct in that it will be a family heirloom of sorts and hopefully my son/daughters will get as much enjoyment out of it as I will. Its going to be a long ride till completion but it will be one of the funnest things I've ever done. Hopefully, it will make a few trips in its life to places more exotic than CO. However, even if it doesn't you know it will see plenty of use here. lol

As to Mr. Beisen, no one was more surprised than I when he said he would be willing to put a rifle together for me. I originally talked to Paula who had told me he was retiring and had 5-6 years worth of work on the books as is. After hearing how I arrived at calling them, she strongly urged me to call her father the next day. I did and it was a wonderful conversation and I want to point out how personable the Beisen's are. Both Paula and Roger treated me as if they knew me my whole life. Roger is a master rifle builder and a master "sales person". I use that term loosely as he asked a few specific questions on what I was after, and then was able to put forth a plan that fit perfectly into my end vision. He just knew what I was after. Several times I told him I wasn't sure I could afford his work and would like a ball park figure. Every time he told me not to worry about it and that we will work it out as we go. He then told me what he prefers to work on in a Pre-64 and away we went. lol

Now, to address the scope question. I've had lots of suggestions that have run the gamut. Even so far as to leave this rifle as is, and put a Lyman peep on it and find a different donor. That's a conversation for a different day though. lol

I've got 3 scopes stuck in my head, and they are scopes I envision on the end result from Beisen. At this point I feel like it would be wasted effort and money to buy a "holdover" scope to get me through until this rifle is done. I think I'd just like to make one purchase and be done with it.

I'm looking at the following:

Leupold VX6 2-12x42

Swaro Z3 3-10x42

Swaro Z5 3.5-18x44

The eternal question has been, what would JOC have chosen? Its a good question as I believe I know what he would have chosen then, but what would have done now in today's day and age? The other factor I'm weighing is that Beisen wants to pattern my rifle after Jack's #2 rifle built by Al. According to Roger it was built with hunting sheep in mind, and that it is slim and trim. He's planning on spinning the barrel to a FWT contour and in general slimming it up pretty good to clone as much as possible Jack's #2 rifle.

So, the weight of the scope has been running through my head. In my case, I'll not be chasing sheep in my lifetime so the additional weight of a scope might not be an issue. But the Leupold does weight 16.8oz versus even 15.9 on the Z5. However, the Leupold has a 30mm tube..

My underlying thought on this is I will get to do this one time. I want to make sure I put together the best rifle/scope I possibly can that will serve my needs no matter where I may end up.

So there is my mindset and "plan" for this build. I just want to point out that it is your Mrs. that constantly puts Leupold back into the mix thus far in these conversations. lol As always, Scotty is quick to point out Minox.

Thank you for the prayers for my father and others here in the state. Currently my cousin and his wife are evacuated in CO Springs, as the fire burning there has put them in the mandatory evac area. As to my dad, it is now up to me to keep an eye on this place and I believe all is fine there. The fire on the east side is pretty much done despite it raging on the far west and north perimeters. Luckily for him, he is in Italy and London for the next week or so visiting with his wife's children. Lucky Dog. lol
 
The rifle build sounds OUTSTANDING!

Consider if you will, a fixed 6x Leupold.

They're very bright (take a look at the comparisons done by gunwriter John Barsness if you want more than my very unscientific appraisal). As is common with fixed power scopes, they're very rugged.

Also fairly lightweight. Leupold makes a couple of basic models, with variations on them. One has the 36mm objective, and is slimmer. The other has the 42mm objective and is better in low light conditions.

The 36mm scope weighs only 8 - 10 ounces depending.

The larger 42mm scope weighs more at 13.6 ounces.

I've got one of each, the 36mm version on my trusty .30-06, and the 42mm scope on the .25-06 that I've used so often the past eight years on mule deer and coyote hunts.

No - they're not Euro scopes, but they are good scopes, surprisingly bright, light, and rugged.

FWIW, Guy
 
Kelly---and here we go LOL

Remember my review of the S/B Summit after wegot it, very nice with a 1 inch tube and only weighs 16.8 oz

However I am very happy with my VX6 and cant imagine your not liking it--if you can find one.

Also my uncle has the Z3 and Z5--both excellent scopes.

The vx6 and Z3 are 1000 dollars less than the summit and that is a consideration, especially considering how well I like the VX6 and Z3. The Z5 and Summit are closer in price and of the two I would pick the summit, but believe me they are both great scopes.

I almost think you need to see which one, fits, for you, as they will all work for you in the mountains.

I do not have a minox so wil let Scotty tell you about that scope
 
I just think it is an awesome build. Scopes are sorta like rifles and you gotta be happy with whatever you buy at the end of the day. Trust me, if it were in the cards for a classic rifle like that, a Swaro or Leica would probably rest on top of it. I like the smaller variable like the 3-10's, 2-12's and such alot. I am in Kelly's corner here though, I think he has all the ideas he needs right now! My head would probably explode with all of the options he has on his plate.
 
You have a lot of patients Kelly, but is going to pay off in the end. I am sure that this build will be perfect.
I just got the Leupold VX-6 2-12X42mm from the little bit I have played with it I am more than impressed. I have it mounted on my CDL in the 270win :wink:

Blessings,
Dan
 
I believe from what I have read of JOC, that he use both Leupold and Zeiss Diavari at various times. I did not care much for the early 3/4 inch tube models of the Leupold and used Lyman American's which JOC also used . The Lyman's were 26 mm tubes and were better optics than Leupold at that time. I think both of us used Redfields upon occasion also and I still use an Illuminator from the 1980's. I know that when JOC was a student and teacher that he also used Weaver K-3 and K-4's.
 
Well, lots of various ways to go and thoughts on this. Long before this rifle project came to fruition, I had really thought about building a classic rifle with classic pieces. The ideas of Leupold fixed powers, and any of the Weavers really resonated with me.

The question was posed to me of what Jack would have used today, had he been alive? So that is how I ended up identifying the scopes I have. Think he'd be looking at the best available on the market. Zeiss has been mentioned, but I've just not ran across anything that has caught my fancy there as of this point.

I'm sure my thoughts will ebb and flow as time goes on. For now though, those are the 3 I'm pretty set upon.

Thanks for the support and pieces of advice. It is most appreciated.
 
Kelly; The Zeiss Diavari C was the predessor to the current $2000 Davari Zeiss scopes. When I bought my Diavari C they were about $500-600 retail depending on power and zoom or not. I have seen pictures of a couple of JOC's rifles and one of Eleanor's rifles with Diavari C 's mounted on them. They looked just like today's Conquest unless you know the difference.
 
Kelly, My custom Model 70 Winchester was built by Jules Bantchni (via London Guns) in California. Currently it has a Swarovski 4-12x50 AH model scope on it, that I mounted in 2002. The rifle was reconstructed from a "garage customised" (1949) Super Grade Model 70 which I had restocked in 1973. I had purchased the Bastogne walnut blank already from a wood dealer in California and the stock making, finishing and checkering (without wood or gun) was $750. then. The entire project cost me $1750, straight up for rifle, wood and stockmaker. The rifle was $500 of that sum. I did not have the smith reblue the rifle because it was a Transition model Super Grade and the floorplate was left original on purpose.

The same level of workmanship would be $3500 or more today, depending on maker. The pattern of stock and checkering that I used was the same as one of JOC's (Beisen) custom rifles, actually the one that disappeared about the time of his death. My 7mm Rem Mag custom has the Fleur-de-Lis checkering, not the .270 Win.

I have used mine (a .270 Winchester) extensively since 1974 and it needs some finish touch-up now from being hard hunted in Utah and Wyoming for 35 years. The rifle still shoots sub-MOA groups and despite all the use, still looks pretty classy despite beauty marks but that is what they are made for.

Good luck with yours. Biesen (the son) does very beautiful work, I am sure that you will be pleased.
Charlie
 
Oldtrader3":letszrgd said:
Kelly, My custom Model 70 Winchester was built by Jules Bantchni (via London Guns) in California. Currently it has a Swarovski 4-12x50 AH model scope on it, that I mounted in 2002. The rifle was reconstructed from a "garage customised" (1949) Super Grade Model 70 which I had restocked in 1973. I had purchased the Bastogne walnut blank already from a wood dealer in California and the stock making, finishing and checkering (without wood or gun) was $750. then. The entire project cost me $1750, straight up for rifle, wood and stockmaker. The rifle was $500 of that sum. I did not have the smith reblue the rifle because it was a Transition model Super Grade and the floorplate was left original on purpose.

The same level of workmanship would be $3500 or more today, depending on maker. The pattern of stock and checkering that I used was the same as one of JOC's (Beisen) custom rifles, actually the one that disappeared about the time of his death. My 7mm Rem Mag custom has the Fleur-de-Lis checkering, not the .270 Win.

I have used mine (a .270 Winchester) extensively since 1974 and it needs some finish touch-up now from being hard hunted in Utah and Wyoming for 35 years. The rifle still shoots sub-MOA groups and despite all the use, still looks pretty classy despite beauty marks but that is what they are made for.

Good luck with yours. Biesen (the son) does very beautiful work, I am sure that you will be pleased.
Charlie
Click to expand...
Charlie,

Sounds like that rifle you put together has been one of the best investments you ever made. Its given you 35 years of flawless service and a lifetime of memories. Can't much ask for more than that. A few beauty marks are a small price to pay for such. I think I've seen pics of a few of your rifles and I know you take really good care of them.

Your pricing concerning Beisen's cost seems to be spot on as far as I can tell. What worried me in the beginning is that Paula was saying some of their recent works ala JOC have been appraised well over the 10k mark. I know that is an appraisal but I could very well believe they could charge that much and still have plenty of customers.

When I actually sat down and looked over Beisen's site, I was really impressed with their pricing on such things as engraving and cutting stocks. You can send a blank to Beisen and have them cut their patterns for $150. Granted, that is a duplicator machine versus hand cutting, but very reasonable in today's day and age. Paula's engraving prices are truly well valued. Seeing as how she is flawless and very intricate in what she does. $750 for a floorplate of that quality doesn't seem out of line by any standard.

I've looked over some Bastogne walnut and quite a bit of English/French. Got a line on some super old Black Walnut as well. The stock is going to be one of the harder pieces to pick out. I've wanted to go super fancy all the way down to just a solid figured blank and back again.

Like you I want the Double Fleur de Lis checkering on the foreend, with wrap around checkering on the grip with pigeon wing. I would also like to have a simple grip cap done, and the BM engraved from Paula along with the bolt knob in a 3 panel design. Debating whether having the rings done with some simple scroll work as well.

I do not want super gaudy, but something that showcases the talents of all the Beisen's. Save for Al as he is most definitely retired. lol

As a very dear friend of mine told me when this project came to light, the best thing I can do is build a rifle that begs me to pick it up and use it. I plan on doing just that.

My tastes versus others are most likely very different. However, that's the magic in building these rifles. They are ours and everything about them is something we came up with along with the builders. My only hope is that this rifle will forever make its way from Father to son in my family.

Thanks for the story of your rifle Charlie and the support and thoughts on this build. I do enjoy seeing others perspective on such things. Any chance of seeing some pics of your rifle Charlie?

Kelly
 
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