bullet weights and diameter

[SJB358]

I think it would be a heck of a load, I would like to see a 275gr 338 NP or a 275gr 358 NP for us 338 Mag and 35 Cal shooters. They would be pretty awesome in a 338 or 35 Whelen for elk and bear up close. If it was a semi spitzer it would still have decent shape. Scotty

 

[Guest]

I wonder what Keith and O'connor would say with the advent of the new "premium" bullets. Would their opinions change?

Actually, the Nosler Patition was around during both of their primes. I think O'Connor got bullet construction a bit more than Keith did. O'Connor quickly adopted the Nosler Partition for his .270 work, especially after seeing the 130 version consistently exit on game like Zebra on one of his Safaris. Elmer still hung onto the heavier .338 bullets (275/300 cup & core) despite even writing how the 300 gr was coming apart and lacking penetration on game on one of his Safaris. However, I think Elmer would have preferred premiums so long as the were in the heavy weights he loved, but the Nosler stopped at 250 gr.

Lou

Yo... I got get one of his books... which one is full of his loads? The most I know about him and his loads is speer bulets and H4831.


Dang... you mean Jack dissed his life long bud Vernon Speer..... The Partition must be one heck of a bullet, then. I take it he used a 130 grainer for all his work?

O'Connor used the 130 weight for most of his work, but often used 150s when heavier game was the only thing on the menu. For example, O'Connor was a dedicated sheep hunter and he liked the flat trajectory of the 130s for that purpose. On the same pack trip for Sheep, O'Connor would bump off a Moose or two with 130s because that is what he was using for a Sheep load. It seemed when he was going after only larger game, such as dedicated Elk hunt, he loaded 150s (which were mostly Speers or Noslers). Jack also used 160s in the .270 early on before he shot too much game with the 130s and was worried about penetration. After killing some larger game like Moose & Grizzly with the 130 load and getting adequate penetration, he seemed to stop worrying about switching to heavier bullets. Jack mentioned a variety of 130s he liked including the Speer, Bronze Point, Core-lokt, and old Winchester Pointed Expanding, but seemed to settle on either the SilverTip or Nosler for most of his later hunts.

Lou

 

[OldMan]

I have a book in my reloading cabinet written by Jack O'Connor and he talks about going to Africa and using all different calibers. He did say he used a 338 Win Mag with factory 250 gr loads and couldn't really tell the difference in killing power compared to a 30-06 with 180 gr factory loads on plains game up to and including Elk sized animals. I wish I could afford to go to Africa and find out for myself! My personal experience has been to kill quickly you need a bullet that gives up some mass (framentation) but still has the weight left to push it through to a vital. I did try the Barnes X bullets when they first came out and found they will kill really quickly if you hit bone, but you might be in for a trailing job if you didn't hit anything but lungs! For me a heavy for caliber bullet is my choice (such as the 200 AB in the 308 caliber) as it had better B.C. and some weight to give up and still drive through. Maybe I will change my mind if proven wrong, but until then----.

 

[Guest]

I have a book in my reloading cabinet written by Jack O'Connor and he talks about going to Africa and using all different calibers. He did say he used a 338 Win Mag with factory 250 gr loads and couldn't really tell the difference in killing power compared to a 30-06 with 180 gr factory loads on plains game up to and including Elk sized animals. I wish I could afford to go to Africa and find out for myself! My personal experience has been to kill quickly you need a bullet that gives up some mass (framentation) but still has the weight left to push it through to a vital. I did try the Barnes X bullets when they first came out and found they will kill really quickly if you hit bone, but you might be in for a trailing job if you didn't hit anything but lungs! For me a heavy for caliber bullet is my choice (such as the 200 AB in the 308 caliber) as it had better B.C. and

some weight to give up and still drive through.


So.. weight given up??..... decreases volocity to increase energy? Hence..
time alloted to create damage to vitals?

Maybe I will change my mind if proven wrong, but until then----.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The formulas for energy is:

mass x velocity x velocity
____________________
2

So while increasing mass 10% will essentially increase energy 10%, increasing velocity 10% nets you close to a 20% increase in energy.

But the ability to break things and push all the way through out the other end of the critter is probably better measured by momentum with is Mass x Velocity.

Of course the elk doesn't know any of this, he just has an idea of about how big a hole you blasted in him and weather or not he can still get away.

Time alloted to create damage is a fiction. It's all about the size of the hole The higher the velocity, the more dynamic the impact, the more the bullet expands, the bigger the hole. Of course, as the frontal area expands it takes more to push it throught the critter, and that's where the advantage to the big fast bullets come in. Big hole all the way through, from any angle.

 

[JD338]

One of Elmer's favorite bullets was the old 275gr speer round nose in .338. At 300 yards he shot through almost 9 feet of Polar Bear. Not that I'm big on round nose bullets, but it's hard to argue with those results.

Yup, plan for the worst and hope for the best. :wink:

JD338

 

[Guest]

One of Elmer's favorite bullets was the old 275gr speer round nose in .338. At 300 yards he shot through almost 9 feet of Polar Bear. Not that I'm big on round nose bullets, but it's hard to argue with those results.

Yup, plan for the worst and hope for the best. :wink:

JD338

Makes sense

 

[corbin9191]

longranger

The higher the BC, the better the bullet can move through the air and retain speed down range.
The 338 RUM with a 250 gr AB (BC .575) is impressive-

MV 2950 fps ME 4831 fpe
500 yds 2564 fps with 3650 fpe
1000 yds 2201 fps with 2680 fpe

http://www.biggameinfo.com/

and 250 grs will get you to the vitals from any angle. :wink:

It is still about accuracy and shot placement, thats paramount! High velocity, high energy, bullet weight, etc doesn't make up for a bad shot.
I think Elmer Keith once said, "An elk shot in the guts with a 375 H&H is still a gut shot".

JD338

I am looking at getting a 300 rum or a 338 rum sometime in the next year or so. But I am just wondering how you achieved 2680 fpe at 1000 yards? I typed it in and the numbers are showing 1320 fpe at 3900 altitude. I am just wondering. Thanks

 

[Desert Fox]

I thought it's kind of high too. Must be a typo! I have 1520 ft/lb and 1655 fps at 2000 ft, 74 deg at 30% humidity from my Exbal.

I am looking at getting a 300 rum or a 338 rum sometime in the next year or so.

Get the 338 RUM or better yet a 338 Lapua or Edge. Using 300 grain SMK, I can get 2343 ft/lb and 1876 fps at 1K mark from the same 2k altitude and barometric condition with my 338 Lapua Improved. Takes 22.5 MOA from my 110 yards zero to get to 1K and as you can see it's still over a ton of energy left.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Those figures would be correct for a BC of 1.
I like my guns big, but I'd rather not shoot elk with a 3" Krupp's shell.

 

[Guest]

Those figures would be correct for a BC of 1.
I like my guns big, but I'd rather not shoot elk with a 3" Krupp's shell.

Youse guys are dangerous. :shock:

 

[Ridge_Runner]

The higher BC bullets won't become real noticeable till the range approaches 700 yards, beyond that they just seem to run away from the standard bullets.
Take an STW and run the numbers for a 140 and 160 load, the 140 is still flatter shooting to just beyond 500 yards. then check them at 800.
Then run a 200 gr .284 wildcat with a BC of .9 at 3100 fps, thats impressive at 1K
My big 7mm sends a 160 AccuBond by the 1K mark at 2050 fps and still retains almost 1500 fpe.
I've taken alot of deer over the years, with alot of different calibers, and to 350 yards there is no practical difference in the 6mm's, 25's, 260's, 270's, and 284's.

The standard mags do a bit better to 500 yards, beyond that the full length mags really shine.Just MHO, worth what ya paid for it.
RR

 

[JD338]

I thought it's kind of high too. Must be a typo! I have 1520 ft/lb and 1655 fps at 2000 ft, 74 deg at 30% humidity from my Exbal.

I am looking at getting a 300 rum or a 338 rum sometime in the next year or so.

Get the 338 RUM or better yet a 338 Lapua or Edge. Using 300 grain SMK, I can get 2343 ft/lb and 1876 fps at 1K mark from the same 2k altitude and barometric condition with my 338 Lapua Improved. Takes 22.5 MOA from my 110 yards zero to get to 1K and as you can see it's still over a ton of energy left.

Guys,

Thanks for pointing this out! It seemed high to me to when I posted this info so I just rechecked it and my numbers posted are correct.
http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?p ... lcadv.ascx

If you don't mind, would you run the numbers in Exbal and let me know what you get? The MOA come ups are good for me to 500 yds so I am curious where it went off track.

UPDATE:

I found the problem, Bullet Drag function was set at G2 instead of G1 .
Here is what I think it should read but I would still like to compare to Exbal.

Elevation 1000 ft
Temperature 59* F
Humidity 70%

MV 2950 fps 4831 fpe
500 yds 2176 fps 2680 fpe
1000 yds 1540 fps 1317 fpe

Sorry about the confusion.

JD338

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's the result from Exbal at 1K

1592 fps
1407 ft/lb
24.75 MOA from my 110 yards Zero

Point Blank range analysis on a 16" killing zone for Elk

zero point 378 yards
highest point 205 yards
lowest point 446 yards

 

[JD338]

Desert Fox

Thank you sir!

JD338

 

[corbin9191]

I thought it's kind of high too. Must be a typo! I have 1520 ft/lb and 1655 fps at 2000 ft, 74 deg at 30% humidity from my Exbal.

I am looking at getting a 300 rum or a 338 rum sometime in the next year or so.

Get the 338 RUM or better yet a 338 Lapua or Edge. Using 300 grain SMK, I can get 2343 ft/lb and 1876 fps at 1K mark from the same 2k altitude and barometric condition with my 338 Lapua Improved. Takes 22.5 MOA from my 110 yards zero to get to 1K and as you can see it's still over a ton of energy left.

Guys,

Thanks for pointing this out! It seemed high to me to when I posted this info so I just rechecked it and my numbers posted are correct.
http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?p ... lcadv.ascx

If you don't mind, would you run the numbers in Exbal and let me know what you get? The MOA come ups are good for me to 500 yds so I am curious where it went off track.

UPDATE:

I found the problem, Bullet Drag function was set at G2 instead of G1 .
Here is what I think it should read but I would still like to compare to Exbal.

Elevation 1000 ft
Temperature 59* F
Humidity 70%

MV 2950 fps 4831 fpe
500 yds 2176 fps 2680 fpe
1000 yds 1540 fps 1317 fpe

Sorry about the confusion.

JD338

When I get back from town I will run the numbers through my exbal and give you the results from 200 - 1500 yards if you want

 

[corbin9191]

Get the 338 RUM or better yet a 338 Lapua or Edge. Using 300 grain SMK, I can get 2343 ft/lb and 1876 fps at 1K mark from the same 2k altitude and barometric condition with my 338 Lapua Improved. Takes 22.5 MOA from my 110 yards zero to get to 1K and as you can see it's still over a ton of energy left.

Actually I am now looking at the 338 allen magnum for my new rifle. With 3416 ft/lbs at 1000 yards and 1338 ft/lbs at 2000 yards :twisted: