C Sharps?

Very nice rifles and I love the history behind them as well. I can just imagine laying on the prairie lining up on a big buffalo.......
 
One certainly touches a piece of history with such fine arms. Though not living entities, they nevertheless have soul.
 
The 45-70 is a real blast to shoot(pun intended). I took mine out early yesterday and put 35 rounds through it with three different bullets and charges. One thing about BPCR's is you get some attention when you touch one off and no one can see their targets for a few seconds.

They may not be of 6PPC accurate but definitely minute of Elk or Buffalo. If I can keep all shots within the 5 1/2" bull I'm a happy camper. This group using a 530 gr Postell bullet cast 1:20.

 
OH MY :shock: sounds like a fine trip Guy and nothing better than looking at some fine looking rifles and trying to leave would be the hard part :mrgreen: I better go now someone mentioned side trip to Cooper Arms and a couple other places ! Wow that side trip could be expensive but sounds like f$N :lol:
 
Yeah, it could have gotten real expensive. There were some mighty fine looking rifles on display.

Some priced quite reasonably. Then there were the fancy ones...

Guy
 
I can appreciate the fine quality and workmanship from C. Sharps and Shiloh but $3500-$5K seems a bit much. So many would love to have a rifle from either of those manufacturers but can't afford the price and or don't want to wait a year to get it..
 
Try $1500 for starting prices...

Not fancy at that level, but the same action & barrel quality.

And 3-4 month delivery time!

Guy
 
Originally Sharps never made a caliber in 45 over the 45-2 7/8" case now called the 45-110. I have a friend that has a Shiloh Quigly Down Under copy. It has a 32" Barrel in 45-110 and it is HEAVY but it shoots. 100 grs FFG and a Lyman 457125 that drops at 520 grs with his mix. Because the rifle is so heavy, close to 14 lbs, felt recoil is less than my 28" barrel Spain made Sharps copy 45-70 with 62 grs FFG and a 520 gr bullet. A 45-70 is really a great choice for these rifles. At long range you really want to keep your bullet under the speed of sound to be the most accurate. With 500ish gr bullets and a case full and compressed at least ten thousands inch of BP you will be just under the speed of sound, in the 1100ish FPS range. I have shot lots of MOA groups with my rifle, (and is common with these BP shooting cartridge rifles when you get them loaded correctly), from 100 to 1000 yards. When hunting with these rifles and the cast bullets they don't kill like modern high velocity rifles do. These rifles kill by putting a caliber size hole completely though from any angle of things needed to work to live. They don't "knock down" animals like people think a BIG heavy bullet should. Most animals react to being shot with these like one being shot with an arrow. They don't run far but they will run off before they bleed out. If you hit the CNS yes they will drop in their tracks. One thing about these slow moving HEAVY bullets is they will penetrate completely though most animals even out as far as 1000 yards. In 1873 the US Government chose the 45-70-500 caliber in the Trap Door Springfield because in test it would shoot through 6" pine longs at 45* and go over a foot into the sand on the other side at 1000 yards. I once shot a deer at 111 yards, with 70 grs FFG and Lymans 457193 that is a flat point that drops at 418 gr from my mix, that was facing me. I aimed at the white patch on it's chest through the vernier open sights. The deer dropped in it's tracks. I found that between the time I pulled the trigger and the bullet got to the deer it had put it's head down and the bullet struck it between the eyes just above the eye line in the forehead. The bullet made saw dust out of it's spine and deflected on it's course and came out just behind the left shoulder and proceeded to hit it's back leg just above the knee and shot it completely off. The bullet then hit the hard packed logging road and went about 5 yards down it looking like a mole trail and then proceeded to come out of the ground and about 5 more yards away it went completely thorough a 4" pine tree and I lost where it went from there. A freight train don't have to be going fast to cause a lot damage. As the old timers said, "you can eat right up to the bullet hole" when using these. You really need to learn your rifle before hunting with it. You need to know EXACTLY what the yardage is or you will miss. These things shoot like throwing a river rock. If zeroed at 100 yards you are usually 5" high at 50 yards and will be a foot low at 200 yards. But once you learn your rifle and find the yardage and shooting from crossed sticks anything with in and including 1000 yards is in serious trouble of having a hole put completely through it.
 
I've read in several different sources where Mike Venturino said a Lyman 457125 gr bullet would completely penetrate a 1,000 pound buffalo. Hard to imagine with a bullet going probably no more than 1200 fps doing that at any range.
 
Velocity is often not the friend of penetration.

I've seen excellent penetration from heavy, blunt, modest velocity ammo such as:

440 gr hard cast @ 1400 fps/500 S&W revolver
300 gr hard cast @ 1100 fps/.44 mag revolver
425 gr hard cast @ 1600 fps/.45-70 Marlin
405 gr JSP @ 1200 fps/.45-70 Marlin

In general those beat the heck out of the higher velocity soft point & hollow point bullets from conventional .24 - .375" rifles.

Guy
 
Guy Miner":3ewjbdf5 said:
Velocity is often not the friend of penetration.

I've seen excellent penetration from heavy, blunt, modest velocity ammo such as:

440 gr hard cast @ 1400 fps/500 S&W revolver
300 gr hard cast @ 1100 fps/.44 mag revolver
425 gr hard cast @ 1600 fps/.45-70 Marlin
405 gr JSP @ 1200 fps/.45-70 Marlin

In general those beat the heck out of the higher velocity soft point & hollow point bullets from conventional .24 - .375" rifles.

Guy
Click to expand...

It is awesome to see it at work as well. I have shot a couple of high speed bullets into water jugs, and the majority end up in 5, maybe 6. Once you get to the big, heavy flat pointed 45-70 bullets, 9 or more jugs are needed to slow them down. They are freight trains.
 
My Browning 1885 does not like lighter bullets. In fact, the lightest one that will group decently is the Saeco 645 at 480 gr. It does the best work with the Lyman 457125 and the Postell bullet at 530 gr.
 
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