Can Of Worms

[truck driver]

The more I learn the more I can't understand how I made good ammo before I came here to this site.
Since I had the 35 Whelen AI built I have taken reloading to a higher level than I ever knew existed and have bought some new equipment to understand what people here have been telling me about my loading and helping me to get the most out of my reloads.
The last thing I bought was a Hornady Bullet Comparator and inserts to measure OAL off the Ogive since one of my Buddies here said I would run into trouble with different batches of bullets when measuring off the bullet tip for my OAL. Now I find that the bullets have different lengths and that the brass base isn't always the same with the brass rims being different thickness and causing the OAL to be different between different loaded cases in the same batch unless you adjust the seating stem for each round which is something I never knew before.
Maybe I'm sweating the small stuff since I'm not loading for 1000yd bench rest rifle but it sure does make you wonder if it effects the accuracy of your loads and give you doubt about what your doing and if it's the cause of you missing game when hunting.
To be honest I sure liked it better when I practiced the KISS method of reloading. :lol:

 

[DrMike]

Don't overthink the issue, Rodger. If you're shooting at 400+ yards, then there justification for taking extreme measures. On the other hand, good ammunition that delivers MOA will still drop game pretty cleanly.

 

[cloverleaf]

ignorance was bliss.... :lol: I wonder what you would discover if you measure a box of Nosler factory loads...(for example)? CL

 

[truck driver]

I here yeah DrMike but it sure was less stressful before my eyes were opened. :lol:

CL, I don't know and they don't sell factory 35 Whelen AI ammo. But I am using Nosler Brass and Nosler Bullets. :wink:

 

[joelkdouglas]

I've more or less come full circle. Started off simple, now I have an arbor press, Redding comp dies, neck turner, my own reamers...

It only gets you so far to get more complicated. My practice loads are good loads, and I use my worst brass, a powder that isn't supposed to be ideal...but match bullets seated straight, and I get very good groups. On the other hand I've tried 180 grain bullets, various powders, primers, neck turning, and my rifle just doesn't like 180 grain bullets much. Oh well, it seems to like 150s and 165s fine.

My point is sometimes a good load is a good load, and sometimes your rifle won't like it anyway.

 

[cloverleaf]

I here yeah DrMike but it sure was less stressful before my eyes were opened. :lol:

CL, I don't know and they don't sell factory 35 Whelen AI ammo. But I am using Nosler Brass and Nosler Bullets. :wink:

Good point.... Nosler doesn't load for my 250 Savage either... :grin: CL

 

[ElmerThud]

DrMike is right - it's not necessary to overthink the issue, but given the time, it's an interesting thing looking at the details and how much variation/tolerance may affect the consistency of home loaded ammunition.
There can be so many aspects to consider.

After cleaning brass, I F/L resize each case to exact (fired case decapped) headspace dimension.
From that point every aspect of the reassembly is checked for 'sameness'.
Perhaps it's a bit anal, but I have the time, find it quite relaxing and enjoy doing it...then it all works...win win!

The care/lengths you go to to produce that exact same brass prep for each round depends so much on just how many rounds you're shooting and how laborious you want to make the job, especially if loading lots of rounds for several different calibres.

Personally, these days I do very little range time and now shoot perhaps only a couple of hundred rounds a year max. So I load twenty or thirty rounds a time and can take absolute care from case prep to final bullet crimp.
Simply put, with all aspects considered I have very consistent ammunition leaving me the weak link in the accuracy chain.

Of my couple of hundred rounds, only twelve to fifteen will account for live quarry, the rest shot just to reassure me I can still get .25" MOA @ 100yds with each ammo batch.
Cheers, ET

 

[NYDAN]

The more I learn the more I can't understand how I made good ammo before I came here to this site.
:

Rodger, I also have learned a lot since reading and joining this forum. In my former ignorance, I also made some good ammo. For me, the difference is that I can now choose how much effort I want to put into developing a load. I can get as finicky as I want (such as for the .270 Win) or throw components together (such as for the 450 Marlin).

Learning more helps to understand more. In some circumstances that could be very helpful. But, we have the choice on how many techniques and how many tools to utilize.

Dan

 

[Guy Miner]

I don't always load for max precision/accuracy.

A lot of my handloading is just to produce good, reliable, reasonably accurate ammo.

And... Final measurements of the load are not made on my loading bench, they're made on the target...

A couple of rifles I have rate the most accurate loads I can craft, and I'll go to pretty fair lengths to get there - but mostly I'm happy if the ammo feeds well, the rifle or handgun goes bang every time, and I shoot with satisfying accuracy. If it's a hunting load, it's nice when the bullet performs well on game too!

Regards, Guy

 

[Silent Sam]

"Perfection is the enemy of good enough"
My goal is always meat in the freezer or dead varmints. Reloading and range shooting are steps to that end, not the goal itself. I've got some rifles I haven't even bothered to start reloading for because the first box of factory ammo shot so well. I have the dies and don't generally buy bulk brass and I'll eventually get around to it but details that don't matter in the field... don't matter. :wink:

 

[Elkman]

As Dr. Mike said "Don't over think the issue,", great advice. Game is missed for a variety of reasons and I would suggest that the accuracy of the cartridge is probably not the cause in most cases. Most hunting does not require "precision" accuracy. I believe will all strive for the best we can wring out of a rifle/cartridge combination, however in most occurrences that accuracy is greater than we actually need for hunting. We each have to set our own guidelines based on equipment and desire. Perhaps you have already reached that point.

 

[truck driver]

I have to omit that I'm a little OCD about how accurate my rifles are and don't settle for second best. If you could thread a needle with a .257 cal bullet my 257 Roberts would do it and it has taken some game that I couldn't have taken with other rifles due to the nature of the shot required. One 6 point white tail wrapped his self around a huge poplar tree and only gave me his tail or nose to shoot at, I choose the nose and the Bob put a 115gr bullet dead center at an estimated 150yds across a valley threw thick woods and that was before I know what I know now about reloading and the Bob will put 5 inside 3/8" at 100yds with those uneducated reloads. So I expect all my rifles and loads to live up to those standards or I get rid of them if they shoot more than 1" for 5 shots at 100yds.

 

[Silent Sam]

There's always a better load unless all your bullets go in the same hole. If I've got kill zone accuracy out as far as I'm going to shoot I'm done. I like to look at first shot groups compiled from every time I put a rifle on paper. Requires a little work but I believe it tells me more than just shooting individual groups. I also try to keep composite targets that over time and many shots show the real grouping I am able to get. It's all about confidence in the rifle and more importantly yourself. A rifle that consistently puts 3 shots in an inch, the same inch very time can take a lot of game. If you are shooting something that 200yds is a far shot for that level of accuracy is not even necessary. In that case my time would be better spent shooting a 2" load from field positions than to keep refining it for accuracy off the bench.

 

[truck driver]

We each have to set our own guidelines based on equipment and desire. Perhaps you have already reached that point. [/quote] Elkman, I do believe I reached that point many years ago as a teenager. My father always told me and I guess he beat it into my head, If it's worth doing it's worth doing right and if it's worth doing right it's worth doing to the best of your ability and I have never been able to accept things being done half way all my adult life and I've taught my children the same philosophy.

There's always a better load unless all your bullets go in the same hole. If I've got kill zone accuracy out as far as I'm going to shoot I'm done. I like to look at first shot groups compiled from every time I put a rifle on paper. Requires a little work but I believe it tells me more than just shooting individual groups. I also try to keep composite targets that over time and many shots show the real grouping I am able to get. It's all about confidence in the rifle and more importantly yourself. A rifle that consistently puts 3 shots in an inch, the same inch very time can take a lot of game. If you are shooting something that 200yds is a far shot for that level of accuracy is not even necessary. In that case my time would be better spent shooting a 2" load from field positions than to keep refining it for accuracy off the bench.

I guess we think a like because I have boxes of targets that I have shot from field position and off the bench and compare them all the time along with pictures of the targets stored on the computer and note books with data on the loads and group size. Yeah I can be obsessed with it at times and then I have to walk away from it and come back latter. The good thing is I always seem to find a happy medium. :grin:

 

[Wondermutt]

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was really getting into it, was loading for max or close to max COAL, or rather COAL for the rifle.

Like you, I have a rifle that I like to shoot. Its the love of the my gun cabinet. And its the one that gives me the most grief. I took a step back, and measured a factory round and gave some of rounds that I reload for it the same length as factory. Its like I bought that darn thing a nice box of chocolates or something. It loves it. Go figure.

Life is now happy at the ranch

 

[MAinAR]

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was really getting into it, was loading for max or close to max COAL, or rather COAL for the rifle.

Like you, I have a rifle that I like to shoot. Its the love of the my gun cabinet. And its the one that gives me the most grief. I took a step back, and measured a factory round and gave some of rounds that I reload for it the same length as factory. Its like I bought that darn thing a nice box of chocolates or something. It loves it. Go figure.

Life is now happy at the ranch

+1! Same thing here.

 

[truck driver]

Loading to factory OAL would be difficult since it's a wild cat and no factory ammo made but I have thought about going to the Sammii OAL and look at that.