Cartridge for youth hunter

killdeernow · Dec 5, 2016

My kiddo is about to start hunter's education in January and wants to hunt the following fall (I'm pretty excited). She'll be 10 before you know it.

So, I have her on a 223 bolt action right now and she doesn't mind it. But...

There are several problems with her using my 223: 1) it is too long from trigger to shoulder so it would require modification 2) not enough fire power for deer (opinion based), antelope, hogs, maybe elk 3) I'm not chopping up my guns to fit my daughter who's growing at a staggering pace.

So, I plan on buying her one gun, modify it to fit her so she's comfortable, and later modify it back to when she's mostly grown so she can have it either to use or for memory sake.

I'm actually down to three cartridges but will consider others based on reasoning. In this order: 1) 260 Remington 2) 6.5 Creedmoor and 3) 257 Roberts.

I can get the Creedmoor the cheapest (Ruger American). The 260 I was looking at is a Remington Model 7 synthetic. I have no idea who makes a Roberts so that might erase it all together.

I know Nosler makes them all in their custom line but I don't feel like dropping cash on something that'll be used and abused by a kid.

I gave thought to the 7mm-08 but I'm worried about recoil. She's the type that if something bad happens, she's done with it...forever.

Thoughts? And thanks in advance for the input; it's much appreciated,

DrMike · Dec 5, 2016

Any one of the cartridges you mention should be fine for your daughter. Candidly, the 7mm-08 would be fine, especially if you loaded ammunition with 120 grain Ballistic Tips. They will work great on deer size game. More important than many other features of the cartridge is fit of the rifle. I would recommend ensuring that the stock fits her. Most competent gunsmiths can help you with this matter.

hseII · Dec 5, 2016

Remington Model 7 in .243, .260, 7-08, even .308 with the managed recoil loads.

I like the .260 enough that I own 1: the 6.5 Creed is the Ballistic twin with a shorter case to accommodate more bullet protrusion with similar COAL.

The negative of the 6.5 Creed is that it's not offered in some manufacturer's line ups, & it's based on an oddball parent case.

The others I mentioned are all based on a .308, & the brass from any could be used to make .260 brass, if needed.

The managed recoil loads in 7-08 & .308 would make it acceptable now, & the only rifle she'd ever need in the Continental, unless she was Hunting something with Teeth & Claws.

cloverleaf · Dec 5, 2016

Well as much I'd like to say a 250 3000- Savage...too hard to find unless you want to put a $100 dollar barrel on a cheap used Savage axis....if you aren't up for that, does savage chamber the 260 in a rifle. I know they do a creed but the 260 would be my choice because its necked down 308 brass. That you can find cheap. Some one w/ more experience loading for the 308 may be able to shed some light on reduced recoil loads...? Just a thought. Why not a 243? Lots of youth rifle possibilities out there for that maybe even cheap used. Probably not going after elk right away.....? Sorry random thoughts you've already had....CL

tddeangelo · Dec 5, 2016

Do you reload?

If so, get any of the ones you mentioned, then get several pounds of H4895 and you're all set.

I have my 14 year old daughter shooting a 7mmWSM quite happily.

Anonymous · Dec 5, 2016

All of the cartridges you mentioned are pretty good starters- everything mentioned recoils in the 10-12 ft/lb range (including the 7-08).

I used the 7-08 for my 10yo son and couldn't be happier, but I could have easily picked the .260 or 6.5 and said the same thing. All of these recoil lightly and kill deer effectively. The .243 would kick a bit less, but it may not even be noticeably less. Stock fit will be a bigger factor.

One thing to consider- factory ammo for the .260 and .257 is more limited. 6.5 is pretty much all the rage now, and the 7-08 is well established. I really think that once you start talking elk, only the 7-08 really looks right but I don't have a ton of experience with the .260 and 6.5. I think the 257 and .243 are all done at large deer (just my opinion on that). The .260 and 6.5 are well regarded for long distance shooting- I'd also ignore all that with a kid on the trigger since most kids won't be sailing them out past Ft. Mudge.

I also used some Remington Managed Recoil loads as well as hand loaded some light loads in the .308 Winchester that made practice a very pleasant event. Remington also makes a reduced loading for 7-08. if required. My son still uses the 7-08 and has no plans to switch to a heavier cartridge in the near term.

Of all the cartridges you mention- I'd pick a 7-08 and start her with reduced loads. By the time she's a teen, she's a killing machine with full power 140gr ammo.

Depending on her build, she might never grow into an "adult" rifle built for a man. You could do a lot worse than something like a Wby. "Camila"- remove the wood stock and stick a short plastic one on it for a few years. You could also pick a Ruger American "Compact" model and see how it works and upgrade later if required. My son's American shoots lights out.

salmonchaser · Dec 5, 2016

Well I just purchased a 6.5 creedmore, absolutely love it. I wouldn't worry about availability of brass.
My mom used a 257 Roberts, Remington 722, to great effect on mule deer and a couple of elk.
She was a tiny woman, 5' maybe 5'01" with a stout tail wind. Tipped the scales at 95 pounds.
I do think the 6.5 or the 7-08 would be more versatile but I wouldn't pass on the Roberts if you found one.

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Europe · Dec 5, 2016

Two things you mentioned that I would like to address. I have had the opportunity and pleasure, much the same as many others here to have had a hand in bringing several boys and girls into our sport. I have found that if you bring them along slowly as you are doing, especially knowing that if it stops being fun for her, she will stop. I would not put the "one gun" for life in my mind, although she will remember her first gun that was made for her, just as she will remember the first gun she used, the 223. I would move her up to a 243, this is as much mental as physical and if it fits her, which it will after you have the stock made to fit her, she will love it and it will be comfortable for her to shoot, fit and recoil wise, yet large enough to take game with. After that I would move her up to a 6.5 swede, or a 7 x 57 or 7mm-08. If you let her keep the 223, it would not be all bad to have a 223, 243, and 7mm-08 ( or swede or mauser ) when she became a teenage, especially if she had caught the bug big time by then. I really like Hodgeman;s idea of the Camila, that is a great idea.

But if I had to choose just one gun, for life for her, the 7mm-08 would work, regardless of how hard that was for me to type, since I love the Swede

Thebear_78 · Dec 5, 2016

One of the reasons I liked the 308 for my sons first rifle, versatility. It's very easy to load from mild pipsqueak loads to full power loads. Somewhere in the middle is the 30-30 to 300 savage power level where it will still perform on game out to 200 yards but not beat up the shoulder

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gerry · Dec 5, 2016

I'm with tddeangelo on seconding H 4895 it you handload, it is a very versatile powder that can be loaded very light to begin with. Actually I would find some Trail Boss first for a bunch of low recoil and mild report loads and then after a while switch to H 4895 for hunting loads. That is exactly what we did for my wife when we got her her Tikka T 3 6.5x55 (which is also a great choice for your girl to use).

I would choose between the 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor of the ones on your list and find some 100-120 gr bullets and go from there. I have shot many deer with the 260 and some with the 6.5x55 and never been disappointed.

Paul Barnard · Dec 6, 2016

I love the 257 Roberts. It's my favorite deer caliber by far. That said, it is dying. Kimber is making it in the affordable Hunter model. I have seen them on sale for under $700. That's about the only viable option in 257 right now. Finding 257 ammo is hard. Even brass is hard to find. I'd scratch it from the list unless you are willing to deal with the availability limitations. The 260 and 6.5 are essentially twins. The difference being that the 260 is trending down in popularity and ammo can be hard to find. The Creedmoor is showing up everywhere. So of the choices you listed, I'd go with the Creedmoor in a compact stock and buy a full size stock when she's done growing if needed. I will caution you though since you are worried about recoil. If you go with a lighter weight rifle in a 6.5, it will giver her a pretty good thump on the shoulder. If you hand load, then you can deal with that.

I am going through something similar with my grandson right now. He's 12 and shoots his little crack barrel 223 lights out. With the Partition handloads, he drops most the deer he shoots in their tracks. He has over a dozen deer kills to his credit over the past 3 seasons. I want to upgrade him though, but cautiously because I want his shooting skills to remain intact. He will either get a Ruger American compact in 243 or 22-250. I hand load, so I'll give him the gun with plenty of ammo built for and proven in the rifle. I am leaning toward the 22-250 with 64 grain Nosler BSB. I have read quite a bit about that combo, and it is a fantastic deer killing combo. If I go with the 243, I will load 85 grain Partitions at about 2900 FPS. An important note if you don't hand load. Reduced recoil loads are available in 243. I like Ruger Americans because the are cheap and accurate. If you buy her one with a compact stock and want to later switch to an adult stock, you can get a nice (and cool) Boyd's stock for $125. That's my plan.

You can add the 7-08 to your list as low recoil loads are available for it, and it comes in a wide variety of youth rifles. If you Google "recoil calculator" you can plug some numbers in to get a feel for the comparative recoil figures for whatever you consider. Something south of 10 foot pounds of recoil energy is what I'd aim for.

Ridgerunner665 · Dec 6, 2016

I started my son with the 7mm-08, using Hornady reduced recoil loads.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pi0qrkp2ohv6 ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Kodiak · Dec 6, 2016

When the grandson was 10, we started him in the Remington youth rifle in 243, shooting from the bench with gramp's reduced handloads. Moved him up to 100 gr. factory loads at 11-12 , and now at 14 is "borrowing" gramp's .270 for all his shooting. He'll be an adult 'fore we know it, good boy!

Jim

JD338 · Dec 6, 2016

Since you mentioned elk, I would lean towards the 7mm-08. As Mike mentioned, the 120 gr BT would be excellent for deer, even with a youth load. The 257 Roberts is a gem with the 115 gr BT or PT.

JD338

preacher · Dec 6, 2016

Get her a Youth model Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor, use the 123gr sst, etc, and paint it in some kind of pink camo! ha To me, and I've had all 3, the 6.5 Creed is a modern .257 Roberts and the 260 is not that easy to find, at least around here. I had a 260 in a Model 7 that was a royal pain and best it would do was 4-5" at 100 with both factory/handloads. I like the Model 7 action, have used it for many smaller rounds. If she was an older teen, it would be worth getting her a "really nice rifle", but a Ruger American is still pretty nice ( wish I'd had one when I was a kid!) and a good excuse to upgrade later on. IMO

Paul Barnard · Dec 6, 2016

Preacher, as far as I know Ruger doesn't make a youth model. They make a compact but it isn't offered in a Creedmoor.

69gto · Dec 6, 2016

I just bought my grand daughter a Wby. Camilla in 6.5 creedmore and it is one sweet little rifle, made to fit women. The recoil is very mild and the rifle is well balanced.

IdahoCTD · Dec 6, 2016

I would go with a 6.5 Creedmoor. It has nearly the energy of a 270 at longer ranges and the recoil is super mild. My wife killed a cow elk and a cow moose with a 6.5x47 Lapua I built for her. Both died relatively quickly. The Creedmoor is a little faster with tons more factory ammo options and Lapua will make brass for it the first quarter of next year.

bdbrown66 · Dec 6, 2016

OP, I started my kids deer hunting at about the same age with a youth-model .243 (Rossi single-shot). Slapped a red-dot sight on it and they were good to go. No need to worry about "scope eye" or anything like that. It didn't cost me much, and I still have the gun for when the grandkids eventually come along. The .243 makes a fine deer rifle with 90-100gr. bullets, if you keep to reasonable ranges. Recoil isn't much more than your .223, so that's not a problem. And you can walk into any Walmart and buy ammo if needed. You can also use it as a very good varmint rifle with lighter bullets, so that gives her added hunting opportunities.

Good luck.