Changing loads for Elk vs. deer

M

muleman

Handloader
May 12, 2009
1,390
124
My kids drew cow elk tags this year and want to use their deer rifles but I think I should change the loads up some. My daughter has adopted my Kimber 84m in .308 as her own. I have a load shooting 125gr BTs or NABs at 3100fps that works great on deer. Thinking I should move up to 150 or 165gr NABs for the elk season. The Kimber fits her best out of all the rifles and she's very confident with it. My son can shoot any rifle I can but is a little more recoil shy(17 and he's 6'2" and 210lbs and yes he'll pack out his own elk). My 6mmx.284 is his favorite. I have two loads that he shoots deer with, the 90gr NAB or the 95gr Berger, both are in the 3400-3500fps range. I know people kill elk with .243s every season but they seem a little light to me. If I let him stay with the 6mmx.284 I was going to use the 90gr NAB, the 100gr PT or maybe the 90gr ETIP. He has many other rifles of mine to choose from(unlike my daughter) such as a 325WSM, 7-08, 6.5WSM, 338WM or even my 28Nosler. All shots will be under 300yds more like 200yds. What are your thoughts and opinions?

Scott
 
The .308 is a good choice for your daughter. The 125 AB will work fine if she puts the bullet where it belongs. The problem I would see with that bullet is lack of mass on a less than perfect shot. Nevertheless, if she is confident and the shot is restricted to reasonable distance, the 125 will work well.

I prefer more mass than the 6X.284 can deliver. The 325WSM charged with a 200 grain PT is a hammer on elk; I've taken several with that particular load. A former hunting partner took elk and moose with his 7-08 shooting 145 grain Grand Slams; they worked quite well. I don't recall him ever taking a shot over ~125 yards, however. The 6.5WSM would work well, though I would want to use a premium bullet with some mass.

Okay, there are my thoughts on the matter. Best of luck to each of you. Trust it is a very successful season.
 
1+ on 308 comments. She has to make 1 shot count in the field.. a bugling elk herd could trigger some buck fever more that a deer or paper.

+1 on the 325 WSM. I really hate loosing an animal.

Very happy your kids get to hunt Elk this year! Wishing you the best


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Scott, I'm probably more in Mikes camp in that I'd probably try to put some 165's in it. Being as you aren't planning on shooting over 300 yards and you're hunting cows, it wouldn't seem like a big trick to load some 165 PT or Accubonds around 2400-2500 to keep the velocity and recoil within your daughters tolerance.

Same for your boy, if he likes and shoots the 6-284 well, the 100 PT or similar will handle elk. They will have dad there to help them out and lend guidance so helping them make the right shot will add a bit of lethality to it as well.

Congrats on them getting tags. Sounds like a good time to look for a freezer or start clearing the shelves. A couple elk in the freezer is a great thing to have!
 
Funny I always thought of a 125gr 30cal. bullet as a varmint bullet for ground hogs but we didn't have accubonds when I used my 30-06 for varmints. I think I would try to work her into a heavier weight bullet starting out with lower velocity and increasing it to where she can handle it.
 
Scott,
+1 for the 308 Win with either a 150 or 165gr bullet.
I would strongly encourage your son to use the 7mm-08 with a 150gr bullet. Even if your son is recoil shy, he should definitely be able to tolerate this load.
Keith
 
Scott - re the .308 & 125 combo - I loaded some of those for a friend's .308 a few years ago, about 3,000 fps mv as I recall. She hit a fat whitetail buck, standing broadside, at about 120 yards. Good hit, he was down in an instant. We found the pancaked bullet under the off-side hide. I'm not sure I'd want to go that light, in Ballistic Tip or AccuBond, on elk...

Here's the thread about how the bullet worked on Dani's buck: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=26561

On the other hand, last year I used the 165 gr Ballistic Tip on bear, mule deer, elk and pronghorn, and it worked just fine on all of them. I've also used that bullet happily on deer in the past from my .308 Win. For elk, I'd prefer the heavier .30 cal bullet, for the penetration. Ya, I know recoil can be an issue, so consider loading it down a bit, and limiting the range of the shot taken?

Regards, Guy
 
You could experiment with the 130 TTSX in her .308 and just stick with the 95gr NoslerPT or the 100PT in the 6mm/284. I have a guy in my church who has used ( and his older teen son) a .240W/95NPT( same as the 6mm/284) for decades out here, he and his son have killed some pretty big bull elk and many mulies with that load. I had a 6mm/284 awhile and the 90BT was way soft even on antelope, but that 95PT has a sterling reputation. I also met a fellow on the way back from Africa who used the 240W/95PT load on antelope and leopard with great success. Good luck and let us know what you end up with...:)
 
Bigger is better, but...
I would think the ETip in the 6-284 would be a hammer and might even blow through at the speeds that cartridge generates. I run ABs in mine (or 105 Bergers for coyotes)and it really opens them up quickly. I would think at the speeds you're running the ETip would be fine. I do find it impossible to disparage a Partition as they just always seem to work.
I'd think the 165 would be the berries in the 308, probably loaded down a little as the previous fellas said.
Man. Two kids getting to hunt elk. That is just flat cool. You're really going to have some fun. I can't wait to see some pics.
 
Load up some full power 165 Accubonds in that 308 Win and sight in the rifle YOURSELF. Do not tell your daughter that they are full power 165s. When shooting game she will never know the difference.

Yep I am a firm believer in the 125 BT on deer. I use that bullet in all my 30 Cal. weapons I use for deer. Just keep the impact velocity under 3000 fps and usually it is bang flop.

I have never elk hunted because they don't live where I hunt but I would want a bit more than any 6mm if I were to get to hunt elk. I have shot a lot of deer with different 6mm's and they work but when you step up to elk their bones are MUCH larger and in hunting situations you don't always get that perfect broadside shot. Do some shooting drills with your son to cure his recoil problems. Get him a good PAST shooting pad. Do the load a round or have an empty chamber shooting drills. Shooter never knows if the gun is loaded or not so it trains them good trigger squeeze and not to anticipate recoil. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Daughter and 308: If you have a load that uses the 125 gr. AccuBond I feel very comfortable that it would work fine for your daughter on elk. The 150 gr. AccuBond or Partition would as well. I've been very happy with the performance on game with the 165 gr. AccuBond in my 30-06, and in water jugs in different rifles from 25 yards, 100, 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. They always penetrate well and stay together.

Son and his 6mm-284. The 90 gr. AccuBond, E-tip, or the 95 or 100 gr. Partition would work in that rifle for elk. It is a little on the light side but those great bullets and good placement would mean dead elk. I shot a nice spike bull at 30 yards with my 6mm Remington and a 100 gr. Nosler Partition. I hit him dead center on his right shoulder and the bullet exited his off side just in front of his left shoulder. He staggered a few steps and was about to go down but I did not want to take a chance as he was in a decent spot to get him out so I shot him again right behind his ear. The bullet performed very well.

My son shot his first cow which was a big old girl with his 6mm Remington and a 90 gr. E-tip at 350 yards. One shot tight to her right shoulder. The bullet angled forward slightly and exited her left shoulder. She went about 20 yards and tipped over dead. Great performance once again, but yes the 6mm's are on the light side for elk but if he shoots it well I would not worry.

The 7mm-08 or the 6.5WSM would both work very well and are a bit larger. They truthfully would probably be a better combination, but the 6mm-284 would work just fine. My thoughts anyway.
 
Tell the strapping young lad to man up and run the 7-08 with a 150 Partition or 145 Speer. Should be good medicine.

I like the .308 with a 150 or 165. You can keep the velocity on the mild side and still have a good killer with less recoil if this is necessary. I load my wife's .308 to about 2600 fps with 150 grain Grand Slam bullets. Doesn't seem like much on paper, but feels significantly milder in terms of muzzle blast and recoil behind the butt plate than max loads. Drops heavy deer, bear and even a horse like nothing. Should do fine on Elk, basically the same load the .300 Savage has used since the '20s.
 
Cow elk go down with .243/6mm from young shooters that I know. So, anything with a good bullet north of 6mm works fine at a reasonable distance. Your listed guns are fine on that account.

Of course bigger is better, with more margin for error, as long as the shooter shoots it well. The guns your kids choose is more important in their minds than in the field for that reason alone.

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Just for the heck of it I started to play around with the 130gr TTSX in my .308. Eventually I found a very accurate load and decided to try it in a whitetail.
I shot a mature doe at about 200yds as she walked directly towards me. The TTSX hit her in the chest and exited her hind quarter. I was shocked by that amount of penetration from such a light bullet.

Just a consideration.
 
I also agree with the others using a 165 GR BT, PT or AB in the 308 Win for your daughter. For your son, the 7-08 loaded with a 150 GR PT would be a great choice.

JD338
 
It feels kind of strange having anything to say about this subject with only taking two elk. Especially in this circle! Still, my 2 cents is going in anyway. :>)

I've never been a fan of fragile bullets or lack of full penetration. It just seems to me that having a "light for caliber" bullet is just not the way to go for elk, even cows. Yeah, I know that the smaller cartridges kill elk and that video proves it. It's also true that I could suit up as quarter back for the Cowboys and throw a touchdown pass on my first play. It's possible....... highly unlikely but possible. My opinion on the 688 yard elk shot with the .243 shot is more luck than anything. Elk just don't go down until they are ready. Maybe that was spine shot? I'd wager that if taking 10 separate 688 yard shots with that same cartridge and you would have 10 different results.

The point to this is what kills is destroying enough of the right kind of tissue, loss of blood, overwhelming shock, central nervous system or vital organ shut down. No matter how you slice this, one of those things has to reach it's tipping point before any animal will hit the deck. The right bullet placed in the right spot with enough steam to do this will kill elk.

When a bullet passes through an animal it does more than just exit with energy. It creates a wound channel and the size of the exit does not necessarily reflect that. Energy is a great thing and is part of the equation but in my opinion it is a means to an end, not the key stone to killing any animal. For these reasons I would go with a bullet that is designed to fully penetrate and some bullet heft goes a long way to that end.

Bigger diameter bullets with plenty S.D. and a design to hold it's mass while expanding accomplish this. Obviously the bigger the bullet the higher the chance of a quick kill with shot placement trumping all. It's a good idea to try and increase your odds when making a shot.

I read somewhere that "there is only one degree of dead but, many degrees of wounded"

I like the .308 for the girl and would suggest a 165 grain bullet like the PT or AB. Maybe the 150 grain TTSX?

For the boy I would suggest the 7mm-08 as the minimum using a 150 grain PT. If he felt comfortable with something 30 cal or larger I would go with that.

Good luck and hope I did not bore to tears with all this rambling................. :lol:
 
308 with 150 TTSX or NAB
The 7mm08 for your son with a 140 NAB, NPT or 140 TTSX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You've got plenty of load and bullet advice here! What I've seen and would advise about is controlling the shooting situation. One of the things it takes us all time to learn is dealing with excitement when game is in view. It is so easy to make poor choices in terms of shooting position, steadiness, target selection, target movement, background animals, etc. If the shot is taken and the choices were poor - wounded and lost animals can result - and a young hunter having a negative experience etched into their memory, and enthusiasm for hunting curtailed. If possible, I wouldn't let them hunt alone and have to make the decisions. You want calmness, a steady position and hold, the animal standing still and broadside, with no others in the background. And a Dad not whispering too many rapid fire admonitions and advice! Words should emphasize the positive and not introduce negative thoughts. "Just squeeze like you always do" is better than "Don't shoot her in the guts!!" They do need to hear "Go ahead, whenever you feel ready". I had a grandson who was waiting for permission to shoot while I was waiting for the shot to go off, all because I assumed he knew all was a go!
My two cents' worth. Excited for all of you.
EE2
 
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