Could use some advice on neck sizing?

[Cleveland48]

Hey folks I'm just trying out neck sizing with my 6.5 Creedmoor, and could use some advice. I've always just used a FL die and bumped the shoulder back .002", and it has worked very well for me. So I decided to play with the Lee collet die. After sizing the necks I get the outside neck diameter to measure
.287" then after seating the bullet the outside neck diameter measures .289". This does mean that my bullet tension is .002" correct? Was kinda what I was hoping as that seems like enough to maybe keep the bullet from being set back into the case during recoil, or maybe sticking into the riflings on a longer QOAL. Does this measurement sound right, or is measuring the outside neck diameter not a good way to do this?


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[jimbires]

yes , that's how you measure this . you do have .002" fit . some guys call it neck tension , interference fit . this is probably enough to hold your bullet . try to grip your bullet by hand and see if you can twist it or pull it out . if you can you need to size the neck smaller for reliable hunting ammo .

 

[Cleveland48]

Thank you! Tried getting it to move with no luck so hopefully that's enough. I don't load hunting ammo into the lands anymore so hopefully will not have any issues.


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[kraky1]

I am not a big fan of the standard Lee Collet mandrel.... as your brass gets a little more work hardened you may find that it does not have enough tension. I have either ordered from Lee mandrels with a little smaller diameter or I have sanded the standard ones down by putting them in my drill and spin them against them against sandpaper. It seems like you are a little bit leery of your own neck tension I am thinking you're probably finding the bullets seat awfully ez?

 

[Cleveland48]

I messed with it a couple months ago and had a friend in the die shop at work turn it down some for me. This is first time I've actually tried it out. It seems like it's fairy snug. Measured with my comparator then pushed it up against my bench with some decent force. Measured again and it hadn't moved any. Think I'm gonna load some up and try them out.


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[kraky1]

He must have not taken much off. But... you can always take a little more off later if you need to and you can never put it back on! Enjoy!

 

[joelkdouglas]

Lee Collet Dies make straight ammo, and they are inexpensive. One needs to pay attention to setting up the die and annealing for good neck tension, or buy brass more often.

Here's my history with the LCD:

I bought a LCD for 30-06 as my first set of reloading dies. Everything was great, for a while. Then the brass necks hardened up after five or six firings, and I hadn't figured out annealing yet, and they started giving me inconsistent neck tension. I could push a bullet into the case with my hand after sizing. Then I tried a Redding Type S neck bushing die, and it gave me more consistent neck tension. I chucked the LCD.

Then I got a concentricity gauge, and the Type S die didn't result in perfectly concentric ammo.

Then I got a Redding Competition bushing die (the one with the sliding sleeve that supports the case throughout the sizing). It produces very good concentricity and very good neck tension.

Then I bought yet another LCD to test it out (did I mention they are inexpensive?). I put the mandrel in a handheld drill and "polished" the mandrel with some sandpaper. I payed particular attention to how the die was set up. It does make straight ammo--as straight as the Redding Competition die, at much less cost.

After you've fired the brass three or four times you'll need to anneal, or buy new brass, or you will have neck tension problems eventually. I candle anneal after each firing so it's not a big deal.

Of note, the Redding Type S die makes more concentric ammo with a Redding shellholder. The Lee shellholder holds the brass "tighter", and I think this results in the body of the case not able to move as much. If you use a LCD with the Lee shellholder you're fine--I only saw the problem with the Lee shellholder and the Redding Type S die. Bushing dies have other "problems" as well, just like the LCD has problems.

 

[kraky1]

I bought 3 or 4 spindles in different calibers direct from lee.... I asked for them to be .0015 under normal size. I think at that time they were like $5 or maybe $7 each..... a lot of them are interchangeable.... it's the same spindle whether you have a 308 or 3006 and I think it even works in my 300 Win Mag.... so the buck stretches out pretty good.... bottom line is I know have perfectly concentric cases with the same tension that I would normally get out of most FL dies. If you watch the benchrest forums some of these guys say there is a quite a difference in accuracy between different neck tensions..... and light neck tension is not always best.
I also use a lot of redding body dies and I have no problem making up hunting ammo with the extra neck tension.

 

[Cleveland48]

Thanks for all the info guys. I believe I read an article on the accurate shooter forum, and the author said he had his best luck at .002" tension. He did say not always, but most of the time. That's kinda where I got the .002" measurement from anyways. I'll give it a go, and see how it does. If I'm not happy I can always go back to FL sizing. I have roughly 240 once fired brass anyways. What is this candle annealing process? Have not heard that before. I've seen the annealing machine and some other ways using templaq or whatever it's called.


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[joelkdouglas]

Candle annealing:

Hold a (de-primed, empty) cartridge halfway up the case body. Put the neck of the case in the candle flame. Hold the case there until it's too hot to hold in your hands, then drop it on a towel. Done, simple, repeatable, cheap.

John Barsness talks about it in his book "Obsession of a Rifle Loony", pages 310-311. He mentions his candle annealing technique was developed by a metallurgist, entirely safe.

A couple of threads that talk about it:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... ost4503090

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread ... 11337040/1

 

[Cleveland48]

Thanks! Was just looking at some annealing machines lol. Would prefer not to spend $300, since I'm saving for a new chronograph lol


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[Cleveland48]

I'm assuming you are still rotating the brass over the flame correct?


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[SJB358]

Great topic. I am learning a ton from this.

Concentricity gauge was the most evil piece of equipment I put on my bench.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I'm assuming you are still rotating the brass over the flame correct?


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I turn the piece of brass by twisting my hand a little. Maybe turn it halfway over during the annealing. The heat spreads pretty evenly. When you try it once you'll realize it's really simple to do.


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[joelkdouglas]

Great topic. I am learning a ton from this.

Concentricity gauge was the most evil piece of equipment I put on my bench.

Same here! I used to use a custom made 30-06 body die until I ran the brass over the concentricity gauge. Not anymore.


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[pharmseller]

Tag

 

[Cleveland48]

Thanks for the help!


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[jimbires]

if you neck turn your brass you will probably need a smaller spindle for the Lee collet die . I do lightly neck turn one of my 7-08's and I still have enough neck tension with the collet die as it came from Lee .

I've annealed for years . by annealing I've ended a lot of problems with sizing brass . I was annealing every other time , now I do it every time .

you can only have so much neck tension . after you reach a certain point the bullet acts like an expander and resizes the neck .

 

[Cleveland48]

Thanks for the info


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[kraky1]

I have always heard that story about you can only have so much neck tension but my Collet bullet puller tells me there's more to the story than that! It's one of those.....it makes sense ideas.... till you spend some time pulling bullets and seeing the huge variance and how easy they come out of the hole.....lol!