Crosshair Scope Hold

[balthaza48]

I'm hunting with a plain old fashion Weaver 3-9 with just crosshairs (no BDE, Mildots,X-Mas tree etc.). Ruger 77 30-06 passed down to me.
Handloaded 178grEld-x that cronos at 2750. Ballistic tables shows about 7"drop at 300 yds and 21" drop at 400 yds. If I hold the horizontal
portion of crosshair on the top of back at 300, I should be in the kill zone. Was wondering where to hold at 400 yds? I was thinking the top
of the ears or top of head, but do not know that distance to the kill zone in inches. Any feedback would be appreciated. If someone knows
the distance from top of deer's head to the middle of the torso on the front legs, could you please post. THX

 

[Blkram]

Sorry, this is going to be dependent upon the deer in your local hunting area, as they vary in size from subspecies to subspecies. It will also depend on the deer's body position and attitude at the time of the shot, as their head and neck can be low or up and extended, or somewhere in between and therefore potentially an unreliable reference for use at the time of the shot opportunity. Our larger northern deer, or the smaller desert subspecies vary significantly in body size.

The average whitetail deer is 18" from back of shoulder to brisket, so with a 21" drop, you'll want to hold at least 7-8" over their back to be in the middle of the 8" vitals zone.
Leupold's Vari X III, VX-III and VX-3 duplex reticles thin crosshair sections were calibrated to cover 18", so that you could use them as a makeshift rangefinder on whitetails. The power adjustment ring would indicate the power setting on one side of the ring, and had a second set of single digit numbers on the other side of the ring to show distance in 100 yard increments. You dialed the power ring to fit the body of the deer within this section of the reticle, and then read the number by the power ring for the distance.

A trick I used on my older Leupold scopes with a duplex reticle, was to shoot actual targets at 400 yards to verify the drop at that distance. The duplex reticle is fine for the crosshairs, but the posts thicken so far out from the cross, and this can be used on the lower post as a holdover reference point.
For example, this point where the lower portion of the crosshair thickens was bang on at 400 yards for my 6.5x55 mounted with fixed 6x42 with a 140 gr X bullet at 2700 fps. (Today, most of my Leupolds have the B&C reticle so I have proper holder over points in various yardages in the reticle. Those that do not are on short range rifle/cartridges for 300 yards or less, where I am always holding on hair.)

A further step would be to use a white target marked with 1" squares to post at 400, and then look through the scope at 9 power and see if it clear enough that you can count the number of inches below the crosshair to the point where the post thickens against that target. Then you'll know the number of inches at 400 yards this thin section of the post covers, and then shoot using that point of reference to verify the holdover is correct.

If your Weaver's reticle is similar, I hope this works for you.

 

[RL338]

Personally I would get a scope with subtensions for holdovers to take away the guessing game.

 

[KinleyWater]

Not trying to be rude, but if you want to hunt with that rifle/ scope combo, why not work at getting closer? Then you don't have to worry about where to hold.

 

[balthaza48]

The gun has sentimental value & I'd like to leave it as is re. changing scopes. I have other rifle/scope combos up to
the 400yd task which I would most likely use; 60 yrs of deer hunting and never took that shot....mostly under 200 yds
Just sitting in my chair and thinking a "WHAT IF" moment. What if I had that gun/scope and I COULD PERCEIVE a big rack
buck at 400yds ... where to hold? Yea, the smart thing would be to get closer and if it was the only horse in the stable
I would update the scope but daydreaming on a cold winter's night is an occupational hazard/pastime for old farts.

 

[JD338]

Personally I would get a scope with subtensions for holdovers to take away the guessing game.

This
It's the responsible thing to do if you want to shoot 400 yards. Guessing holdover is not fair to yourself or the intended game.

JD338

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I read several years ago about sighting in standard calibers like 270,308,30-06 and such 2 inches high at 100yds. This puts you about dead on at 200 yards. At 300yards hold on top of the back in the hairline. At 350 yards put the top of the bottom post on the middle of the deer's vitals. I tried it and used it because it works. Called shooting the duplex. If you want to go to 400 yards would need to spend a little time at the range to see what adjustment in height is needed. I have used this method for killing shots out to 350 yards. Hope this helps.
Dan.

 

[Blkram]

I read several years ago about sighting in standard calibers like 270,308,30-06 and such 2 inches high at 100yds. This puts you about dead on at 200 yards. At 300yards hold on top of the back in the hairline. At 350 yards put the top of the bottom post on the middle of the deer's vitals. I tried it and used it because it works. Called shooting the duplex. If you want to go to 400 yards would need to spend a little time at the range to see what adjustment in height is needed. I have used this method for killing shots out to 350 yards. Hope this helps.
Dan.

Hadn't heard the term "shooting the duplex" before, but is exactly as I described (or was trying to ) in post #2 of this thread above.

 

[JD338]

I did the same thing with my (at the time) 280 Remington with 140 gr BTs. The scope was a VX III 2.5-8x36mm standard duplex reticle. With a 200 yard zero and cranked up to 8x, my poi was dead on at 300 yds using the bottom of the duplex junction. Never shot it at 400 yds.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

I do pretty much the same as WvBuckbuster with the exception of sighting in 3" high at 100 yards. I can usually hold on hair out to 250 to 275 yards on the average size deer and holding with a bit of daylight between an elk's back made it an easy shot on my longest shot ever; 530 yards on a cow elk. Rifle was a Winchester M70 .300 Win. Mag running the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core. Scope was a 3x9 Nikon with duplex reticle. Currently, it has a Burris fullfield 3x9 with duples and hash mark for hold over use.
Paul B.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I do pretty much the same as WvBuckbuster with the exception of sighting in 3" high at 100 yards. I can usually hold on hair out to 250 to 275 yards on the average size deer and holding with a bit of daylight between an elk's back made it an easy shot on my longest shot ever; 530 yards on a cow elk. Rifle was a Winchester M70 .300 Win. Mag running the 200 gr. Speer Hot Core. Scope was a 3x9 Nikon with duplex reticle. Currently, it has a Burris fullfield 3x9 with duples and hash mark for hold over use.
Paul B.

Jack O'Conner wrote that he sighted his 270Win 3 inches high at 100 yds and was able to hold center out to 300 yds keeping his shots in the 8 inch kill zone. I did this with my own 270 this past year. The one shot I took was at about 150 yds in a late doe season and connected with no problem. This sight in works also.