Double Rifles

[Thankful Otter]

My husband is looking at purchasing a Double rifle and the following IS NOT in our price range., but he liked it for more than one reason We reached out to April, since we know she has hunted Africa several times with one. She reminded me that Salmonchaser also has one and that he should be consulted before buying. Her favorites were the 450/400 and 9.3 x 74R. ---and this is where it got interesting

For those interested, look up her 9.3 x74 R--------

Ludwig Borovnik, Austria and then look at his "Secret of Artemis" . Look at all 5 pictures and possibly you will notice some of the same things my husband noticed.
_______________________

O.K., back to the real world most of us live in He is looking at a caliber that is legal to hunt the Big 5 in Africa ( 375 H & H ) and up--plus he wants to use it in Nunavut for polar bear protection when we are there---plus--he just wants one

 

[DrMike]

Wanting a double rifle is a good enough reason to get one.

 

[JD338]

Cheyenne,

I've always admired the double rifle. Very rich in character and history and with a lot of class and elegance. I hope your husband gets the double rifle he desires. A 375 would be awesome.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

I second what Dr. Mike said. Now if I win the lottery........
Paul B.

 

[Guy Miner]

Saw some interesting double rifles at the Safari Rifle match, Libby Montana a couple of years ago.

470 Nitro seemed pretty popular and some of those were quite old. I figure they were worth what I make in 6 months!

Good luck on the hunt for that double rifle.

Guy

 

[Blkram]

I too think that a double in 9.3x74 or 450/400 would be fun to own and shoot.
For N. America, I would probably go with the 9.3, while for Africa and dangerous game, the 450/400 would get the nod.
Craig Boddington write wonderful things about the 450/400 in his books and articles about this cartridge and its effectiveness on the Big 5.
Ruger also chambers it in their No.1, which would be a nice rifle to carry too.

 

[HodgemanAK]

Double rifles are just plain classy. One of my dumber moments in firearms acquisition was passing on a new Heym 88B in 470NE for the low, low price of $6,000 somewhere around 2008.

Of course, in the throes of the global financial meltdown, $6k was a considerable sum for a rifle I had little real need for. I ended up with a Nosler 48 and a Benelli M2 that spring at fire sale prices so it wasn't a total loss...but that Heym is likely worth $30k currently.

 

[Thankful Otter]

Thank you

Did any of you look up the rifle April uses ( my first post ) I had no idea that they made rifles like that. The engraving probably cost more than my rifles and the wood! Beautiful. She also said people would ask her "were you the model ?"

Anyway, my husband has certainly gotten an education. We ask her about a double and besides the caliber, she explained barrel length, ammo consideration before it is built, Drop, Side, or Box lock, Manufacturers , new, vs used, AND the use of the rifle . I guess you can't actually shoot a Rhino now, Leopard is from a blind, and possibly the lion as well. You may only shoot one Elephant in your lifetime, but you will shot a lot ( or could ) of plains game animals, so dont get some large bore that you will shoot an elephant with and then not use again.

she s suggesting something like a 9.3 x74R or 375 H & H, which could be used on a lot of species in Africa, as well as the white bear, brown bear, moose, muskox, and bison here at home.

Jim, Dr Mike, I did relay your message to her

 

[JD338]

Cheyenne,

All very valid points!
Yes, I did look up April's rifle.
It is stunning work of art!

JD338

 

[DrMike]

'Tis a lovely work of art, without a doubt. I didn't consider that April would be the model, but I suppose that is always a possibility.

 

[truck driver]

Cheyenne,
That is one beautiful rifle, and the engraver did fantastic work.
I looked at Guns of America's web site and saw lots of double rifles for sale priced from wild to reasonable, one in particular caught my eye which was a Grifith and Howe in 375 H&H and the seller is located in Colorado priced at around $8000. The only throw back is the owner had his name engraved on the top rib and is gold inlayed, not sure if this would be a no sale for your husband or not, but it is in the caliber he is looking for if the price is right.

 

[salmonchaser]

If I won a big lottery I would buy several doubles. Love them. A 9.3 or 375 for sure and a 450/400. All three cartridges are relatively easy to shoot and more or less available. I think Rigby use to make a 35?, that would be good!

 

[Thankful Otter]

Rodger, thank you

The more involved we got, the more it became obvious that we were out of our depth both knowledge and price wise. We have basically turned this over to our grandfather, who has the time, knowledge and finances to pursue my husbands dream. Just one small example. We had never heard of Steve Barnett, in your country, but he has some beautiful rifles for sale and there are others in the U.S. and Canada.

Just a side note that brings a smile to our face--and I paraphrase --April, says this like you are going to the local grocery store for milk. Fly to Mississippi, or Germany or have a face to face with Searcy in Calif, see if Martini in Canada is still in business, etc, but make sure it has "this and that" and that to does "this and that"

If I won a big lottery I would buy several doubles. Love them. A 9.3 or 375 for sure and a 450/400. All three cartridges are relatively easy to shoot and more or less available. I think Rigby use to make a 35?, that would be good!

Thank you. He has been looking at the Ruger number one and was wondering, with practice, how quick can you get off the second and third shots. No one here has one for him to shoot, but he does know someone in Nunavut that has one and may have the opportunity to work with it in the near future. I thought you either had one or wanted one and if you have one can you answer that question ? And I will pass along the Rigby suggestion, thank you

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

Guy uses a Ruger No. 1 I know, he might have some insight on follow up shots with it. I will probably never own a double rifle but I always daydream about having one. Good luck on your search, they are such nice guns.

 

[Blkram]

While we have a couple of No.1's and I have shot some of a friend's big bores chambered in No.1's (375, 416, 458, 450/500 3 1/4" and 510 Wells - and NO, I do not want to launch another 700 gr pill from that 510 ever again - twice was enough!), I am not as experienced as others. I would say most can reload and get off a second shot in about 5 seconds or so (perhaps less with more experience and practice), which would be too long in a really dangerous, dangerous game scenario (charge), which is where the double has the distinct advantage of a quicker back up shot.
In most instances in Africa, the PH will be there to back up the hunter if things go south, and many of them carry doubles, but not all, for the really dangerous work (tracking/recovery). In Alaska for brown bear, there is also a guide to back up the hunter.
In most instances, a hunter will not be completely at a disadvantage with a single shot, as most so equipped know they do not have a quick follow up shot, and take more care in placing that first shot well, and not taking those riskier shots because of this. I know that Craig Boddington and his wife Donna have both taken cape buffalo with the Ruger No.1 in 450/400, and he writes of this in books and articles.
Fo Cheyenne and her husband, in their neck of the woods, there may not be a guide or a PH, to back them up. They may be alone, or have each other for back up, and in this case, the double would be preferred over the single shot...especially with grizzly in the thick stuff...but I wouldn't rule out Cheyenne with her 348!

 

[noslerpartition]

We have a rich history with double rifles here in Germany and funnily enough, some are chambered in 45-70.
Since wild boar are constantly on the rise (African swine pest might see to that, though), they are still - or again - pupular on driven hunts.
Cartridges range from 7x57R over 7x65R and the 9,3 to some cartridges more suited for Buffalo in Africa.
Though his channel is somewhat - well - different, Kentucky ballistics shows some impressive impacts with Elefant rifles, some of them doubles.

I don't own one. One of the "one day...." Projects, since I don't really need one.
Good luck on your chase!
If you want an impression on local prices, there is a platform similar to gunbroker here, called egun.de.
I could navigate you to the right category.

 

[salmonchaser]

I'm faster to the third shot, perhaps a tie, #1 against a double. I have practiced with the #1 but have not timed a reload. There are balance issues to compensate for, but perfect practice will make perfect.
My double a 577 nitro express.

 

[PJGunner]

"Thank you. He has been looking at the Ruger number one and was wondering, with practice, how quick can you get off the second and third shots. No one here has one for him to shoot, but he does know someone in Nunavut that has one and may have the opportunity to work with it in the near future. I thought you either had one or wanted one and if you have one can you answer that question ? And I will pass along the Rigby suggestion, thank you"

I think I can answer that question for you. Someone said something about 5 seconds. Seriously, I think with a bit of practice one can cut that down to 3 seconds if one czn remain cool, calm and collected.

I done a lot of hunting with Ruger number ones in various chamberings. Current I have 23 ranging from .22 Hornet to.45-70 with the hardest kicker being a .416 Rigby. Also have one a the more rare .404 Jefferey and a .375 H&H which I like a lot.

The real trick to a fast reload is to do it right with the first shot. After the shot, slightly tilt the rifle to the right as you drop the lever to insure the fired case clears the safety. Sometimes, if you don't the case can hit the safety and bounce back into the chamber. Probably the most common method of carrying spare rounds in either in a belt holder or butt cuff. Some use a cuff mounted just in front of the receiver or a cuff on the wrist of the hand that holds the forearm. I've never tried the latter two. I like the holder on the belt which works well on warm days but extra clothes get in the way during hunting season. The late gun writer Al Miller wrote an article titled "Speed Loading the Single Shot Rifle" which would be a good start read. IIRC, it was in Rifle Magazine.

Basically it works like this. After the shot you tilt the rifle slightly and jectct the fired rounf. Your left hand slides from the forearm to the reciever and your thumb covers the breech. You take the next cartridge from the holder and slide it toward the breech lifting the thumb to clear the breech. The muzzle of he rifle is tilted down so that the cartridge slides in easily. This is a situation where tight neck sized cartridges are out of place. You want slick easy chambering. Close the breech and take aim should you need to shoot again. Mr. Miller does a much better job of describing the process than I. One thing I left out, you are looking at your target the whole time. You never look at the gun.

With the wrist cuff or the cuff on the forearm you can load while keeping the butt against your shoulder. I've done it with the cuff on the butt but it's a bit awkward for me.

One thing Mr. Miller emphasized was one to shoot a single shot just about as fast and the average bolt action shooter doing AIMED shots. If I ever get my printer to work, I'll try and find the article and copy it.
Paul B.

 

[PJGunner]

As there were a few comments on the 450/40 cartridge, I thought I'd look it up. Book is AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES by John Taylor.

One, it seems there were two 450/400 cartridges, a three inch and a three and a quarter inch. I don't know if they were interchangeable.
3" 400 gr. bullet 2125 FPS
3 1/4" 400 gr. bullet 2125 FPS
And for spits and grins, the .404 Jefferey 400 gr. bullet 2125 FPS. Just a rimless version of the two above.
I have too much time on my hands.
Paul B.

 

[Thankful Otter]

Thank you Paul, Don, Gil for the info and noslerpartion for the "link"

He has moved toward the 450/400 3", as the 9.3 x 74 does not provide the legal number of Joules for DG in some Africa countries and it would certainly work on the large game here.

Thanks to all who has responded.

My Boykin and I will be flying our very soon, as it is time to go back to work and therefore I will not be able respond, but appreciate the replies received. Thank you

and, to all those down South. Happy 4th