Elk rifle

[Brad]

7mm, I've said before, all hunting ceases and shooting begins when the trigger is pressed, be it 50 or 500 yards. Truth of the matter is a disciplined and practiced rifleman can be deadlier at 50 to 500 yards than the unpracticed might be at 50. More can and does go wrong in the timber, close up and personal than out in the open. A lot of guys will whang away at a running elk in the timber, yet criticize that which they know nothing about (LR hunting) considering themselves "real hunters." BS!

Would add, anyone who shoots at range understand's the condition's required to make the shot.

This year, for example, I shot an antelope at a lasered 547 yards. He was bedded accross a big open draw with no chance to get closer. What wind there was was very light and blowing directly at me so the wind was no issue. The animal was watching me but was stationary, remaining bedded, so that was perfect. I had plenty of time to get prone and set up my shooting nest (no bipod, shot off my daypack). I had an LRF, so the distance was a known quantity and I use a scope with dot's matching the trajectory of my load (so drop wasn't an issue). I had enough time to get my breathing and heart rate down, and pressed the trigger. One shot, one dead antelope. 300 wsm / 180 Partition.

An elk is a heck of a lot bigger than a bedded antelope... punch the lungs of the elk with any reasonable bullet from any reasonable cartridge and it'll die, pronto.

Anyone who cares to take the time to get the right gear and actually practice can kill an elk at 4 or 500 yards. That just isn't that far on an animal of that size. The key is the right gear and the discipline aquired through practice. That disciplne will keep you from taking shots where everything isn't "just right." The time to take long shots IS ONLY when everything is "just right" and you can't get closer. But again, the discipline aquired through practice teaches this truth!

Armchair quarterbacks have no concept about that part of the equasion...

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Jeff- Maybe we can get together sometime and shoot longer range. I see your from Eugene, I'm just a little ways off in Hermiston. I have access to shoot out to 1K, 5 minutes from my house. I have 2, 8" square gongs which are set out at 400-500, and 2 more square 10" gongs set at 600-700, and a 15" gong set at 800. Since I have the place and time, I shoot quite a bit which allows me to know what my rifles do at these ranges. If you dont have the place, (which most dont) you'll never know. So you cant make the assumption on others. Not pointing you out inparticular, just saying.

Brad- Thats a mighty nice looking rifle, and antelope. Sounds like you made a great 1 shot kill at that range as well. Obviously you knew what you were doing and had practice at that range before with good results, giving you great confidence. Congrats on a fine lookin animal and kill!

 

[Bigwheels]

I hunt with a 338 Win Mag,& use 225 AB's.My "Normal" practise routine involves shooting out to 600yds.I have the LRF,MIL DOT scope,& I don't begin the season 'till I hit a QT. Gator Aid jug from the SITTING position,& prone.@ 500yds.But I have the place to do this,& the equipment.& I do it EVERY YEAR.My 6X7 bull is on my wall now because of this regimen.& a 225 AB expands just fine @ those ranges.

 

[340boy]

Nice speedgoat, Brad!
Nice rifle as well, I didn't know Talley made the lightweights in 'stainless' or did you do that yourself?

 

[Brad]

Thank's 25-06... not a big goat by any means but was a satisfying hunt and antelope taste good!

Big Wheels, congrat's on a good bull!

340, nice to see my friend and MSU grad on the Nosler Board... (grins)! I honestly prefer not to take animals at such range and will always work hard to get closer. Very occasionally it's just not possible. Friend M. Dober has taken quite a few bulls in the 500+ yard range because of the open country he hunts. Last year he dumped a bull right at 500 with the palin-jane 270 and a 130 TSX... it punched the shoulders and exited. The bull took one step and fell over dead.

Anyway, I wasn't wanting to beat up on Jeff I just was trying to interject a bit of reality into the thread. A 300 WBY with a 200 grainer is potent elk medicine well in excess of 500 yards... the question isn't whether that round or the 338/210 combo can take elk at long range, the question is whether the shooter will be able to use either round's full potential through practice and discipline.

Best Wishes Gent's...

 

[Brad]

340, forgot to say, Talley does put silver anodizing on a limited amount of their rings. However, it was not available when I ordered mine so I had my smith bead blast the blue anodizing off... worked like a champ.

 

[JD338]

A 300 WBY with a 200 grainer is potent elk medicine well in excess of 500 yards... the question isn't whether that round or the 338/210 combo can take elk at long range, the question is whether the shooter will be able to use either round's full potential through practice and discipline.

Best Wishes Gent's...

Brad,

I couldn't agree more!
I just secured a place to shoot 1k. I plan on shooting both my 280AI and 338 RUM at these distances. I have been shooting .5 MOA to 500 yds. Both rifles are set up with Leupold scopes and dials, along with drop charts. I also have a Swaro 8x30 Laser Guide LRF for exact range estimation.
Doesn't mean I will shoot at game at 1k, just first hand experience at this distance. Should be enlightening.

JD338

 

[Brad]

JD, sounds like you're set up right and ready to go!

I got serious about shooting at LR a couple years ago after an elk season I had to pass on a bull because my rifle and myslef were not set up / ready to take the shot. Everyone's different but I think with practice most can become proficient to 400+ yards no problem.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

JD- Let us know how that 1K shootin turns out for ya. The first time out was a little tricky for me and my 300 RUM. Managed to hit what I wanted 2 out of about 10 shots, and that "hit" was a 2 foot square, haha. Its a lot of fun to shoot 1K.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Brad- Like you, I had to pass on a nice 4x4 muley that I just could not pull the trigger on. I did not have the right equipment back then, nor did I practice a lot either. As I look back on it, the range was only around 400 yards. With my 25-06 loaded with a 115g btip at 3200fps, sighted 3 in high at 100 yards, I coulda put the crosshairs at the top of the back, maybe couple inches over, and watched him fall through my scope at the squeeze of the trigger. That was when I was 14 years old. I have learned so much over the 7 years that I would now not even hesitate to take that kind of shot now. I just told myself I did not want to go home empty handed when I coulda brought home a nice buck if I had the right equipment and did my job as a shooter. So I started practicing at 300 yards on milk jugs and graduated to 500-600 yards. As of lately I use 8-10" steel gongs out to 800 yards.

 

[FOTIS]

JD, sounds like you're set up right and ready to go!

Yeah Jim ket us know! Especially how off the PC tables are as opossed to real world drops.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

You don't need a rangefinder to say what I am saying- you just need drop charts.

Using them you will note that even a 225 AB from a 338 is dropping fast at 400 yards and beyond and misjudging the distance by a relatively small fraction of the total distance can have profound consequences...

So let me get this straight... you're saying a 300 WBY using a 200 grainer is marginal as is a 338 WM using a 210 and a 338 using a 225 is almost marginal and that you don't need a rangefinder (just drop charts) yet in the previous post you didn't take a long shot because you didn't know how far it was and hadn't practiced at range yet you're also saying a misjudgement at 400 yards in range guestimation can result in a miss or worse and you're qualified to hold all these opinion's never having killed BG animal at range.

The truth of the matter is your posts are a confused pile of contradiction's and assumption's all based in lack of experience with a bit of third and fourth hand references thrown in. Good advice for you would be to stick to what you know, not blather on about what you obviously have no grasp of... that's about as nice as I can put it.

If somebody wants to regularly shoot at game at 400 yards or more, they had dang well better have their crap together. No rifle nor load nor rangefinder will be the solution by itself- it's as much a "software" issue as a hardware issue. Sounds like you know that perfectly well and are choosing to take issue with what... the mere idea that someone would say that shooting that far is marginal for most hunters?

I've made my points on both the software and hardware part of it, and I was, I think, careful to say that there are certainly people out there who are perfectly set up and qualified to do a 500 or 600 yard shot. However, you and I both know that a .338 UM and a rangefinder and a 225 AB does not suddenly mean a hunter has any business taking a 600-yard shot, ballistics be damned!

Maybe I shouldn't have said that as a I hunter, I have certainly confronted the reality that sometimes, filling a tag might mean taking a 400-yard shot. I GET that. I wasn't being contradictory, I was trying to show that I am a hunter, and I understand the realities out there. But folks, here and elsewhere, toss around the 500, 600-yard shot idea like it's the most natural thing in the world; why all the cool kids are doing it! And I take issue with that.

You are entitled to your own opinion, and if you care this much about it you probably are one of the guys who does practice at those ranges, knows his rifle and load, and can make the shot.

I'll say this, though. I'm not shy about engaging in this debate in the flesh, at the gunshop, when I hear someone start talking about it. I have a standing $50 bet that, in hunting conditions*, a guy can't hit a vitals-size circle *on the first shot* at a distance between 500-600 yards. Nobody has ever taken me up on it. It's an open bet if you want in on it.

-jeff

*hunting conditions just means not at the range or somewhere you regularly shoot- I'm not interested in what you can do from the concrete bench at yoru range, nor is it relevant. We find a nice cross-canyon (it would have to be in my area at least) shot... a rest is perfectly fine, as is a rangefinder, and the shooter would certainly get a reasonable time to set up the shot. This would be simulating the best-case scenario of a still animal with the shooter in an established stand. But it might be windy that day. Might be raining. Might be a little foggy. You know... hunting conditions! So there's an easy $50 for you.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

If you ever make it up to Hermiston I'll take that bet! I'll bring my trusty 7mm RM w/168g VLD's and show you my 500 yard gong that is 10" or the average size of a deers kill zone. I'll then proceed to flip open the harris bi pod, get settled in the prone position, check the wind, dial in the correct MOA for my 6.5-20x50 VX3 LR scope, and let her rip. In about .5 seconds you'll hear a resounding whop from the bullet hitting the steel which would in turn mean a very dead deer on the 1st shot. I shot my little buck this year at 618 yards on the very 1st shot high in the shoulder. He ran a little ways but was dead when I got to him. I was very confident in the situation and my equipment and time at the range obviously paid off. It was not luck. I have it on video camera as well. This particular rifle is pretty damn accurate to say the least. Its already shot a couple 2.5-3.5" groups at 700 yards laying prone w/bipod, I think thats more then accurate for deer at that range. I have still never said that just because a guy has the right equipment that he has the business taking long range shots. He still has to PRACTICE up and out to the ranges he intends on shooting. If he does not, he is not any better then the guy with a 270 that shoots his rifle 1 time a year before going deer hunting. You have to know how to use the equipment. You know what they say, knowledge is power.

The only time I get worked up is when I hear of some guy saying he can hit some pop can 500 yards away with his 300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM on the first shot w/out any kind of rangefinder or BDC scope or w/out dialing the proper MOA's. I dont even waste my breath on these guys, I just laugh at them inside. They wouldn't know what 500 yards was if it slapped them in the ass.

After I typed all that, I read where you wanted to go out to a canyon and shoot, not at a range. Hey thats fine with me to. Some of my favorite inatimate objects to find are little rocks, bushes, whatever presents itself to be a long range shot. Whenever I am coyote hunting or whatever and its kinda slow, its time to pop off a couple rounds for practice. Usually find a little rock or something at some 400-800 yards away and have my dad spot for me. I'll get the range, check the wind, dial my scope, lay down prone w/bipod and shoot. I know that out to 600 yards I am pretty deadly from the field. I dont just shoot at my range, but I like to pick rocks or wherever I'm hunting to shoot at to. I just like to simulate that a deer was standing over there in a real life situation and see if I can hit what I want on the 1st shot. Usually I can so I would gladly take that $50 bet.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Jeff- Heres a pic of my current LR rifle. Nothing real special, but she will get the job done on targets and rocks out to 1000 yards, and will work on deer, elk, coyotes, black bears, and antelope out to 700 yards if need be. The rifle is a Rem 700 BDL 7 RM shooting 168g VLD's at 3000fps. The scope in the pic is a Leupold MK4, 4.5-14x50, however thats been replaced with a Leupold VX3 LR series 6.5-20x50. The rifle is totally stock except for trigger is down to 2.5# and I now have a Holland QD brake installed. Rifle shoots 1/2 MOA to 700 yards so far with 64g RL-22 and the 168g VLD. WIth a .643 BC, those Bergers fly through air very nicely and work very well on coyotes and deer. 2 coyotes and 2 bucks can attest to it so far. I have great confidence in this rifle out to 700 yards. In the pic is the last 2 shots I confirmed for my 700 yard zero on paper. As you can see to the right of that is my steel gong that got wacked 3 out of 3 times as well. I'll say it before and I'll say it again. Anyone with a good rifle, good rangefinder, drop chart, and scope, with practice can make 500 yard shots relatively easy. Its not that hard, PERIOD.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Heres a better pic of the rifle with the Holland brake. Doing a bit of load development off the good ol leadsled.

 

[Brad]

Jeff Olsen, you can obfuscate all you want.. you KNOW the reason I took issue with your posts. It's because you're pontificating about what you have no experience with. Just as one example, your assertion a 300 Wby hurling a 200 or 335 a 210 isn't up to taking an elk past 400 yards is utterly absurd.

Only thing you and I agree with is most people have no business shooting at range because they're not set up for it, both in terms of gear, practice and discipline.

I've never been at the controls of a 747 so I never lecture my old man, who has, regarding how to fly one ... that's just common freaking sense.

 

[MattStevens]

700 yards..... Lets see, that's roughly 40' short of a half mile. You better keep a pretty detailed dope book on wind direction/speed, ambient temp, degrees uphill, downhill, barrel temp, heat mirage in hot climates etc . To be consistent you will need an absolute dead rest, a tactical scope with windage and elevation adjustments etc. Believe me, I do have a background. Yes, in perfect conditions you may hit the target at the range with some consistency, but hunting almost never provides these perfect conditions. My opinion is, if you respect the animals you hunt, these "hail Mary" shots are ill advised. The chances of an poorly placed shot, or a hit without sufficient energy to kill the animal are great; thereby, sending a wounded animal off to suffer, and animals that are not recovered do suffer.

It's easy to pull the trigger, it's a little harder to use your cunning and skills as a hunter to stalk within a prudent range. And that's my opinion. :grin:

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Do you not see that leupold MK4 tactical scope that sits on my rifle??? Thats about a $1000 scope. Its got your tactical knobs and everything. So are you saying all teh shots I"ve made at 500 yards or past have all been luck even though they've connected on teh 1st shot? Complete Bogus. Well you have your opinion, I have mine, thats all that matters.

 

[MattStevens]

Do you hunt from a wheelchair, or do you have working legs? Nobody who shoots from a half mile will reside in our camp, no matter how much they are willing to pay. And you are correct about having opinions. Continued good luck to you.

May I add one more thing, shooting people at a half mile becasue you have to is one thing, shooting an animal at a half mile because you choose to is quite another.

 

[Jeff Olsen]

If you ever make it up to Hermiston I'll take that bet! I'll bring my trusty 7mm RM w/168g VLD's and show you my 500 yard gong that is 10" or the average size of a deers kill zone. I'll then proceed to flip open the harris bi pod, get settled in the prone position, check the wind, dial in the correct MOA for my 6.5-20x50 VX3 LR scope, and let her rip.

The only time I get worked up is when I hear of some guy saying he can hit some pop can 500 yards away with his 300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM on the first shot w/out any kind of rangefinder or BDC scope or w/out dialing the proper MOA's. I dont even waste my breath on these guys, I just laugh at them inside. They wouldn't know what 500 yards was if it slapped them in the ass.

OK, it's a deal! Friendly bet. Not looking for enemies in this life, only friends! Sounds like a good excuse to go shootin' anyway.

-jeff