Elk....use enough gun????

[dakotaelkslayer]

When people talk about elk cartridges, you often hear the famous, "use the biggest caliber you can shoot well." And then they recommend cartridges that usually end with MAGNUM.
Today, with all the great bullets and powders we have, what really is "enough gun" for elk.

Jim

 

[Guy Miner]

Part of it depends on what kind of elk hunting you're doing. In the magazines, everybody shoots a heavily muscled 800+ pound 6x6 bull elk. That's a lot different than here, where in reality most hunters shoot a 300 - 400 pound spike or cow.

Many of the guys I know use either a 7mm mag or a .300 Win mag - very popular, and they've got "enough" gun for elk, black bear or mulies - same gun & load for overlapping seasons. Other guys are perfectly content to simply use their .270 or .30-06 deer rifle with good bullets and at least a few stick with their sweet-shooting .25-06 rifles - using good bullets.

Also depends on how good a shot the hunter is, and how picky he's going to be about his shooting... A good soft-point bullet through the lungs and heart of an elk is going to work. It's those "iffy" shots that make a fellow seriously consider the bigger bores, the .338 Win mags etc... I had absolutely no problem dropping my elk with a 7mm Rem mag & a single 175 gr Nosler Partition. Other guys have told horror stories about big bull elk running off after soaking up multiple hits from even bigger rifles.

Bottom line? Beats me! :grin:

 

[FOTIS]

When people talk about elk cartridges, you often hear the famous, "use the biggest caliber you can shoot well." And then they recommend cartridges that usually end with MAGNUM.
Today, with all the great bullets and powders we have, what really is "enough gun" for elk.

Jim

For me the biggest one you can use. Is it necessary? Yes and no. NO it is not required from a power standpoint. Most of my Greek buddies here in Cheyenne use 270 and 30-06's to get the job done. And they do it well. So why do I want the biggest on a personal level?

A buddy was hunting the Savage Run area in the Snowy Range here west of Laramie WY. He shot a 6x6 bull with a 30-06 with the classic behind the shoulder lung shot. The bull ran 100 yards over a small hill where the bull bedded and right there in his death bed another "HUNTER" shot it in the neck and called it his!
The bull was deader than dead but the savant just had to shoot it while my buddy had no visual.
Now if he was using my 416 BEE that bull would have probably folded like a cheap suit right on the spot.
So you see it is not the cartridge but the savants who want results and are willing to compromise their integrity (or lack there of) just to put someone else's meat in the freezer. :evil:

 

[c-ne-elk]

IMO...

It also depends on the terrain in which you are hunting, i.e. deep dark timber where you shots are close or shooting from one side of a canyon to another.

Over the years, I have shot elk both bulls and cows with an assortment of calibers including .338 WM, .325 WSM, .338-06, .300 Wea Mag, .300 Win Mag, 7 mm, .30-06, .270 WSM, .280, .280 Ackley.270 Win and they would all do their job if I did mine.

Years ago when there was not much of a choice of a premium bullet I think size mattered more. With a good bullet you can get away with a much smaller caliber that most people will shoot better. For the last 5 years I personally have been sold on a .270 WSM.

To new elk hunters I would say choose the gun you can shoot best, larger than .25 calliber (which in the hands of a trained shooter that won't overextend his shots will do the job) and use a heavy for caliber bullet if it is under 30 caliber and most importantly, use a premium bullet. A premium bullet will give you a better chance of an exit hole which is important if the elk moves off after the shot and you need to follow his blood trail.

Most of the time, you don't impress an elk with a large caliber. They can take a lot of lead. About the only time they drop in their tracks is if they are spine shot.

 

[FOTIS]

Where I hunt this year it is a draw area. Not too many hunters as opposed to a General area. This year I used a 7mm Rem Mag with 150 gr Partitions successfully.

 

[JD338]

Its more important to hit them in the right place than what you hit them with. Now having said that, hunting pressure, terrain, etc should also be factored in.
Also, some want to use more gun than they can shoot accuratly.
IMHO, use the biggest load you can accuratly shoot.

I used my 338 RUM on a bull at 347 yds, it knocked him right off his feet.
Theres no replacement for displacement. :wink:

JD338

 

[taylorce1]

First elk I killed was with a .30-06, I was above her and shot down between the shoulder blades. Didn't kill here but she didn't go anywhere either, the finising off shot was behind the ear. Second elk I killed was another cow behind the shoulders double lung shot with a .270 Win all she did was fall over backwards, the rest of the elk I've killed have all been with the .270 Win. I use 150 grain Partitions and haven't had a problem yet. I just recently got some 160 grain Partitions and I'll be doing load development in the near future.

Last year I went elk hunting and took my .338-06 as primary and my .35 Whelen as back up. Didn't see a shootable elk the first day, and unfortunatly I didn't get to hunt anymore that season due to an injury my partner had. This year elk hunting wasn't in the cards so I'll have to wait another year to try out my .338 and .35 caliber elk rifles.

What I really want to do for elk hunting is go out and try to do a cow hunt with my old Win M94 .30-30 rifle. I feel that if used properly and limit my range to shots 150 yards or less this will be enough gun. Has anyone else wanted to hunt with something like a .30-30 for elk?

 

[Anonymous]

I killed my first elk with a 30-30 at about 75 yards. If I remember correctly, he took about two steps and it was all over.

 

[FOTIS]

Just goes to show... it is "where" you put it.

 

[taylorce1]

POP, I went back and fully read your post about the other "Hunter". This happend to one of my friends as well and unfortunatly the animal goes to the last person to shoot it according to the DOW here in CO. My friend was able to go out and get another cow but it is still a PITA to have to deal with a situation like that.

 

[cloverleaf]

Just finished reading the "cartridge corner" in the most recent Petersons Hunting magazine. They propose that a 7mm-08 is enough gun for an elk. If you look at the numbers it should be as it compares favorably to a 7-mag. I have no experience on Elk so what do I know? A good bullet in the right place will stop em I suspect. Im guessing from your handle you might be from the great state of South Dakota. Me too, currently in exile elsewhere. If so enjoy that once in a lifetime tag and send me pictures of your bull. Best of luck!! CL

 

[FOTIS]

POP, I went back and fully read your post about the other "Hunter". This happend to one of my friends as well and unfortunatly the animal goes to the last person to shoot it according to the DOW here in CO. My friend was able to go out and get another cow but it is still a PITA to have to deal with a situation like that.

It happened to me also in 1996. I was using my 378 WBY and spined a 5x5 bull. He was about 500 yards away. He was done and could not move. Some a-hole saw the whole affair and was about 150 yards away. He walked up to it and shot it in the head. Legally it was his even hough my shot anchored him. Ethically he is a loser...in my book. He saw me running and shot it when I was about 30 yards out.

Loser man!

 

[Greg Nolan]

Here I go again. I'm going to upset at least some of you, BUT.
The average elk weighs at least 3 times what even a big white tail or mule dear weighs. The ability of a bull elk to run a LONG WAYS when hit well is legendary ( ELMER KEITH and GREG NOLAN (ME)! Why would you want to shoot a minimum caliber with such an animal? You can't kill it too dead and the larger calibers by nature are slower with less blood shot meat. If I wanted to brag I would shoot deer with a 22 long rifle because in reality it is probably responsable for more dead does than any other caliber? This arguement can and probably will go on for ever but if you were the elk (which caliber would you want to be killed with? Suffering and lost animals isn't a testiment to skill. I apologize for my adomance to all of you but I've seen elk hit with 30-06 and .338 Nosler partitions run off into the trees, never to be found with days of searching with known hits. This may be the first time in the history of this web sight that I've dis agreed with freinds but elk are just that hard (sometimes) to bring down. The feeling afterwords that (I know I hit him) will linger and be with you for quite a while. Don't let people convince you or shame you into using a lesser caliber than you think is appropriate. Most hunters (me included) who hunt public land may not get but one, if any shots at a legal elk. Based on that it's hard to turn down that shot at whatever range or angle. That's reality. If you have the self restraint to wait for a better shot or angle or range I take my hat off to you. Don't let the gun writers that go on quality hunts many, many times a year on private land convince you that you're not really a hunter unless you wait for 100 or less yard standing broadside shots. That's not reality for a public land hunter. :?

 

[dakotaelkslayer]

Based on that it's hard to turn down that shot at whatever range or angle. That's reality. If you have the self restraint to wait for a better shot or angle or range I take my hat off to you.

Greg,
Hear me out on this one... Lets say you are hunting elk with a 7mm-08 shooting a quality bullet. You keep your shots at 300yds. or under and only shoot at angles that give you a good double-lung. In reality, wouldn't you have a better chance of success without wounding than one who is shooting a .338 Win who does NOT consider range or angle?

Jim

 

[taylorce1]

Based on that it's hard to turn down that shot at whatever range or angle. That's reality. If you have the self restraint to wait for a better shot or angle or range I take my hat off to you.

Greg,
Hear me out on this one... Lets say you are hunting elk with a 7mm-08 shooting a quality bullet. You keep your shots at 300yds. or under and only shoot at angles that give you a good double-lung. In reality, wouldn't you have a better chance of success without wounding than one who is shooting a .338 Win who does NOT consider range or angle?

Jim

Jim,
Best answer yet, and to be honest I've never had a problem turning down shots that I felt I couldn't make. My .30-30 should have every bit as much power as my .50 caliber muzzler loader which a lot of people use to hunt elk every year. Plus I have to get much closer with the ML than I would with a .30-30 because I'm really limited by not being able to use optics, smokeless powder, and sabots in Colorado like other States allow. So I'd have to say 100 yards would be about the limit of my ability to shoot my muzzle loader. To me hunting has to be about the challenge and not the results, but don't get me wrong I like the results too.

 

[Guy Miner]

BTW Greg - the reason I have a couple of magnum rifles? Elk.

Otherwise I really wouldn't need a magnum of any kind... Elk is the biggest and toughest game I've hunted, and am likely to hunt. The extra power avail with the big case, to toss a big bullet with authority, is a comfort when dealing with 700+ pound "deer" type critters.

Regards, Guy

 

[FOTIS]

BTW Greg - the reason I have a couple of magnum rifles? Elk.

Otherwise I really wouldn't need a magnum of any kind... Elk is the biggest and toughest game I've hunted, and am likely to hunt. The extra power avail with the big case, to toss a big bullet with authority, is a comfort when dealing with 700+ pound "deer" type critters.

Regards, Guy

Very well said. They are not absolutely warranted but I will use them.

 

[JD338]

Based on that it's hard to turn down that shot at whatever range or angle. That's reality. If you have the self restraint to wait for a better shot or angle or range I take my hat off to you.

Greg,
Hear me out on this one... Lets say you are hunting elk with a 7mm-08 shooting a quality bullet. You keep your shots at 300yds. or under and only shoot at angles that give you a good double-lung. In reality, wouldn't you have a better chance of success without wounding than one who is shooting a .338 Win who does NOT consider range or angle?

Jim

dakotaelkslayer,

Under ideal conditions, you are right. If that perfect broadside shot presents its self at 300 yds great. But what if the elk takes a step at the moment you break the trigger? What if he actually isnt quite broadside or starts to turn?
Those are the reasons why some perfer the bigger magnums, BUT only if you can shoot them.
Elk, Moose and Africa are the reasons I bought a 338 RUM. I have developed several loads that are very accurate and I shoot it a fair amount. Below is a target that was shot at 440 yds.

JD338

 

[dakotaelkslayer]

Nice shootin' JD338! Also, good point about the "elk takes a step". That brings up today's quality bullets... At 300yds., wouldn' t a 140gr. Partition still punch through the shoulder of an elk, or isn't there enough mass there to get the job done???

Jim

 

[JD338]

Jim,

The 140 gr PT is a great bullet! I have used it in a 280 Rem for deer hunting. It will punch through a shoulder but I personaly would like more weight. I like to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Yes, that 338 RUM of mine is a shooter.
Here is another group, 250 gr PT's. Don't let anyone kid you, partitions can shoot!

JD338