go big or go home....

[metallica]

Im just wondering why everyone is shooting 200+ grain bullets?? Isnt shot placement more important?? My thinking on this is that smaller bullet= less recoil witch means less of a chance developing a flinch while I shoot witch = a more accurate shot???


I remember not that long ago that a 180grn 300win or wby was said to be too large of a gun for most everything in north america except bears elk and moose..... Now i see alot of talk of a 180 for deer and such and 200+ for the moose elk.....

Are we getting to the stage of not being able to pass on a nice buck because the shot wasnt there so now im shooting 200grns and if the shots not there ill weigh him down with lead???


what do you think?????

 

[metallica]

Oh and one more thing...... for the guys that are going to say the big bullets cause less emat damage (which I agree) if your making good shots you shouldnt have to worry about any meat damage......

 

[fredj338]

I have no dog in this hunt as I don't use a 300mag, but I do favor heavy for caliber bullets unless shooting the super solids like Barnes. Next we need to define a "good shot". To me a good shot is one that puts the animal down & out in the shortest possible time. "Perfect" shots like the broadside double lung are nice but in real world hunting situations, you often never see that shot especially on large trophy animals, JME. I would rather have a bullet I know will get to the vitals of the size animal I am after from any reasonable angle.
Hard 1/4 to or away shots can play havoc w/ high vel. bullets. I could see using a 200grNP in the 300wby if I were after elk or moose in timber where my shot may be 20yds-200yds. TO me, the reason you use a magnum in the first place is to push heavier bullets faster, not light bullets faster. :roll: If I am shooting 165gr bullets, I'ld just stay w/ the 300wsm.

 

[lefty315]

I am loading a 200 grain AccuBond in my .300 WSM at 2800 fps. This doesn't seem fast and it isn't but my down range drop is the same as my buddy using a 180 grain NP at over 3000 fps. We have both zeroed for 200 yards and have shot out to 400 yards. The only reason I developed the 200 grain load was because all of the 180's were sold out when I went looking.

My .35 Whelen shoots a 250 grain at 2470 fps. With a 200yard zero it drops 9 inches at 300 yards. That is the same as my .30-06 with a 180 AccuBond.

I imagine I could argue and say the heavy bullets resist the wind better and carry energy, but when it comes down to it I loaded them because they are extremely accurate from my rifles.

 

[Steelhead]

I killed 4 deer this season, 1 with a 22cal 64gr bullet, 1 with a 22cal 75gr bullet, 1 with a 25cal 85gr bullet, and 1 with a 8mm 196gr bullet.

It's all good.......

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

There are so many reasons to use a heavy bullet that itd be hard to list them all. The most important though are that they hit harder at all ranges, (especially as the range increases), they retain more velocity downrange, they cut through the wind a lot better downrange, they havea higher BC which allows it to hit harder and retain more velocity, heavier bullets also havea higher SD which allows them to penetrate through heavy bone at any angle at any range, given a decent bullet is used. Next, if you run the ballistics and sight them in with the same zero, usually a heavy bullet will shoot just as flat as a lighter one. I dont care about ruining meat,but yes bigger bulets do cause less meat damage in general. I am a shoulder shooter to anchor game in there tracks. Usually theres quitea bit of blood shot, but you have to use a heavy for caliber bullet to get through shoulders. With a lighter bullet, you'll only break one shoulder and you'll be watching it run off and the chase begins. These are just some of the main reasons I would think its best to use a heavy for caliber bullet.

 

[Steelhead]

Funny stuff..

 

[Guy Miner]

remingtonman and I both favor heavier bullets, but I gotta tell you, I've killed deer with everything from a .223 w/55 grain bullets to a .45-70 w/405 grain bullets and a .50 muzzle loader w/385 grain bullets. My favorite deer cartridges are the little 6mm Rem w/95 grain bullets and the .25-06 with 100 grain bullets. If I feel the need for one of my magnums, either the 7mm Rem or the .300 Rem Ultra Mag - then I want the heavy bullets they shoot so well too.

Heavy bullets, light bullets... Use what works well for you!

I do like the longer, heavier, higher BC bullets for long-range shooting and deep penetration on heavily muscled game like big bull elk - but... I compete with the stubby little 155 grain Noslers out to 1000 yards with my .308 Win match rifle. :grin:

 

[Bluejay]

I feel this is one of the "eternal" question for which a final answer will be hard to achieve.

Please, allow me to throw in my 2 cents.

OK, I agree it's better to exceed than lack but.....it seems to me this race to go larger and heavier will never end.
Even though I know you can easily kill a deer with a .375 H & H I do not personally think this is the way to go.
I have noticed in this forum a lot of ppl are using .300 Mags, .338 and so...for hunting whitetails.
In my opinion, considering that all of modern cartridges are very powerful, two things are the most important: Shot placement and the right bullet.

It is better a heart shot with a .243 than a hind shot with a .300.
I strongly believe a hunter can carry out a quick kill with (for example), the glorious 30.06 on ALL the North American Game (Moose included) if He knows his gun and what is doing.
And for whitetails, even the .243 can easily get the job done!
And if you want more gun, go for the .270 Win

OK...I said it... :roll:

Cheers to All.

 

[FOTIS]

Bigger bullets act bigger at every range. Also higher BC. Do the math :wink:

 

[Bluejay]

Bigger bullets act bigger at every range. Also higher BC. Do the math :wink:

Thanks for reminding me POP.....I almost forgot...

I thought we were talking about hunting and not 1000 yds. target shooting.

Experienced Hunters DO NOT shoot beyond a certain "ethical" range (..let's say...350 yds. max?), because you end up wounding the animal TOO MANY times and Deer are not paper target and, most importantly, this is BY NO MEANS called hunting anymore (still in my own opinion).

I practice a lot at the target range, even at long distances, but when it comes to shoot a live animal, I always try to get as close as I can, and if I feel there are too many chances for my shot to go bad...I let Him walk.

But hey,....that's me.

Cheers :wink:

 

[FOTIS]

Man oh man you opened it up!

You brought "ETHICS" in this! :lol:


For the record...I do not shoot at live animals at 1000 yards. I should have stated that heavier bullets are a plus at "LONGER" ranges. :wink:

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

350 yards?? Is that all??? I guess it takes a couch potato to hit things at longer ranges. To say someone is not experienced hunter just because he wishes to shoot past 350 yards is bogus. There are tons of variables that go into longer ranges. Long range is a relative term. Long range is also different in different situations, terrain, weather, etc... Experienced hunters and shooters know the difference of when to take a 600 yard shot, and shooting 10 rounds off hoping to hit what hes aiming at.

My favorite deer caliber is a 25-06 with 115g btips at 3100fps. It has the accuracy and power I need to make 1st round lethal hits out to 600 yards in good conditions. I dont feel undergunned at all. The onlyreason to shoot something bigger is to shoot farther.

 

[FOTIS]

.......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand the're off!!!!!


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[metallica]

WEll in my opinion (and remeber this is just mine!! :wink: ) taking shots over 400 yrads isnt a good idea and I feel that you havent done your job as a hunter. I have guided in northern BC for 5 years now (for grizz, caribou, moose, sheep, and goat) and I can say I have never had to or let my client shoot further then 300 yards. If you cant get closer maybe it wasnt ment to be........????

As stated before I do shoot a 300wby but thats because I do guide a lot of bow hunters for grizz.......... And I feel better having it but now after reading all these things and guys talking about the big 200+ bullets.....

I usually shot 180grn and never had a problem knocking anything down...

By the way things are going were going to start seeing guys talking about 50cals as a hunting gun and a 338 only good for deer......

 

[Guest]

Just a couple of things. I don't take shots longer than I can comfortably guarantee I have the ability to hit well, but I think that distance differs for a lot of people. I also think quite a few hunters are taking shots at distances at which they have not practiced much or at all. That said, in reference to POP's comment about BC, that's true, but consider the issue as a function of trajectory. If you have a, say, 130gr .277 bullet doing 3500fps, the point-blank range is about 320-325yds if you use a 5" circle, which allows for grouping at about 3-4" at 300+, and with a 150gr in the same .277 bore, you only get 300yds of point-blank range. I guess the point is that a higher BC may be offset by a lower velocity until you get out to the range where the lighter slug has slowed significantly enough to get passed up by the heavier slug. For hunting, this has little pragmatic value. For target shooting at tremendous range, I bet it matters.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Well consider this, all other things aside. You have been hunting hard all season long. It comes down to the last day and you are faced with a 550 yard shot. Wouldn't it be nice to be prepared for that kinda shot and fill your tag and go home with something? I guess some dont care whether they fill there tag or not, but me, I would rather be prepared for a long shot then go home empty handed. Some say its great time spent in the mountains, to me, thats what camping and hiking is for. Hunting season is time to meat on the table. Thats the bottom line for me. If I can sneak no closer then 500 yards, then so be it. Big bucks and bulls aren't stupid, I also hunt sagebrush flats and wheatfields where 200+ yard shots are the norm, not the exception. Like someone once said, theres a point when hunting becomes shooting and its better to practice farther then you intend on shooting.

 

[Bluejay]

OK...First of all let me punctualize once again these are my beliefs, my opinion. I do not mean to judge nor to teach anybody....BUT...............
If we continue along the scenario some of you have pictured, we'll soon all be hunting with a .50 caliber, shooting game from the hood of our trucks at ranges up to 1000 yds. (...or beyond?).
Is that hunting?

I BELIEVE shooting for a HUNTER is the last (necessary) part of the job, and not the other way around.

"theres a point when hunting becomes shooting..." --> No way! That means it's no hunting anymore...

".. and its better to practice farther then you intend on shooting." --> 100% agreed - within reasonable limits (Hunting only)

Bottom line: if someone wants to get on a top of a hill from where He can scout at long distances, with a box of ammos, bipod, rangefinder, sand bags, scope with a bullet drop compensation and SHOOT game as far as He can see, because "SOONER OR LATER I'LL GET HIM", He's free to do it, BUT DO NOT DARE TO CALL THAT HUNTING.

Cheers

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

Here is my take, and I not trying to be a jerk, just a little crass. People that shoot light bullets, typically don't plan on hitting a big animal in the shoulder, unless it is very close. People that shoot big bullets, shoot for mass. I have read a lot of forums here, and I see the same thing, people talking about their sub moa groups with 180-200+ bullets. Why? If we spend all that time shooting and reloading, and can shoot these excellent groups, why do we take the shot, where we have to track forever, and/or wreck meat? I have never had to track an animal that was shot in the neck, it just plain died. You don't have to put this monster hole in the animal either, heck the bullet doesn't even need to expand(for a neck shot). I got on my brother a couple of years ago. He was concerned about his bullet(257 Wby) holding together @ close range in the shoulder. I asked,"why in the heck are you shoulder shooting?" He said that he wanted to take a higher percentage shot. I said, if you can't put 1 round in a 8" area(size of a whitetail neck) inside of 300-400 yds, you need to go back to the range. I know, that an animal's neck moves a little more than a shoulder does, so it might be tougher. Additionally, with a smaller caliber, you have a better chance at a follow up shot if needed, due to a much lighter recoil. Muzzle brakes help large calibers, but you practically need ear protection to shoot them. I hunt almost everything with a 270 Win or a 240 Wby. I like the 240 better, because it has about 13 lbs of recoil, and it weighs about 6.75 lbs loaded with scope, which makes it a joy to carry. Someone please explain to me why people don't shoot for the neck more?

 

[FOTIS]

Remember this one? :lol: :lol:

http://noslerreloading.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1764

enjoy reading!