Group testing my Remington 7600 carbine in 35 Whelen with 180 grain hot cores

[badaxeriverman]

I ordered this gun as a special run probably in 2019. I’m guessing. Never been able to get nice groups with it worth a darn. It also wouldn’t feed ammo so it went back to Remington. I tried so many ladder tests in it with poor results that I really got sick of shooting it. I did slug the barrel at .358”. IMO it’s in the large side. My Remington 7600 in 35 rem and 336 in 35 Rem both slug .357”. The barrel came loose twice on me at the range. Remington was going to replace the slide tube and never did. Told me they tightened it. Took it out the other day for a range session and it didn’t shoot worth the darn. A good 3/4” plus groups on everything I tested. Took it out again last week to experiment with powder coating some of the jacket and projectiles to get them bigger and diameter. Factory hornady in two sizes I have were .357”. Norma 250 grain I have are .3565”. I increased the diameters to .3595” with powder coating. Got to the range last week with them and went to shoot a group and I couldn’t even hit a 3 foot sheet of paper at 100 yards two out of three times! …To find out that the magazine tube is loose as a goose again. Apparently Remington didn’t tighten up the loose magazine tube. I got home in unscrewed that tube completely and took the barrel off. Cleaned the grease off the threads and put a generous amount of blue loc tite on the male and female threads. Put it back together and gave it a “He Man’s” tightening with a Phillips screw driver through the pump slide tube holes. I also had swapped out my plastic furniture with grey laminate factory furniture. I also installed the Uncle Mikes swivel screw set. The screw that holds the pump on has loosened up and backed out a few times as well. I also blue loc tited it when I did my slide tube. I also notice my pump had side to side movement enough that the pump would touch the left side of my barrel. My other two 7600’s don’t tough the barrels. I grabbed a dowel and sanded the pump channel till it didn’t touch the barrel and then applied tru oil in the channel. After I reinstalling it the pump touched my barrel again! I talked with my buddy who is a gunsmith. He told my to twist the pump in the opposite direction when tighten the hold down screw. Sure enough it fixed the issue and the pump will not touch the barrel so it “free floats”. I let the gun sit for almost a week after applying the loc tite. I had some ladder tests loaded up with the powder coated jacked bullets to try yet. I needed to load up a few rounds to check zero before I started wasting ammo again. I grabbed the closest powder to me which was H4895. I also grabbed some 180 grain hot cores because I have a few boxes and had some I pulled laying around with some dented up lead “road rash” looking tips. Decided to load them out of the clear blue a grain below hodgens on line data at 56 grains. They also looked to short at 3.030” but figured I really didn’t care because I was just checking zero. No crimp, didn’t trim my cases, just loaded quickly to burn up to check zero. Got to the range today and shot one of my 6 test rounds at 25 yards. An inch low and a little left. Figured good enough for a 100 yards to be on paper. I then tried three of these random loads at 100 yards…

Well, I guess I found my load by accident…lol. I had two rounds loaded up and left to get it zeroed. Needless to say I wish I was aiming at the square but I was aiming at 4 inches to the right. I got so excited that I forgot my where I was aiming and clicked over a dozen to the right and then took a shot. I hit an inch low and a good inch to right of the bull’s-eye. I then clicked about four clicks left in four clicks up. Took my shot and I was dead center in about an inch high from Bullseye. I was out of ammo, but had enough confidence in my adjustment that I clicked down 2 clicks. That’ll put me about a half inch high dead center at 100 yards. Have to load up some more and go back to the range another day, but I would assume I am ready to rock ‘n’ roll. I wasn’t gonna waste shooting those lighter tests of powder coated jacket bullets after that. I did grab one set of three in the 200 grain Hornadys. I think the best group I had with those from factory ammo was about an inch and a half when I first got the gun and before everything went haywire coming loose. The load I tested with powder coating was a about an inch group give or take a quarter inch. Didn’t measure it because I knew I already found my load with the 180 grain hot cores but I didn’t have to screw around and powder coat. I also knew the 180 grain were .358 to .3585” when I checked them. I could never get the 180 grain hot core to group previously. Guessing the pump was touch the barrel and non stop drama of the barrel coming loose kept opening my groups. Glad I got it figured out finally. I’ll load up some more and go out and shoot some 5, 6, and 10 shot groups to make everybody happy here…lol. I normally don’t shoot more than once at a deer and right it drops. So one shot group is pretty good for me... but it doesn’t tell me what my guns doing…lol. I’m pretty sure my pump has been touching my barrel since day one groups. The best I’ve ever got out of it was with hornady super performance ammo and hand loaded 180 TSSX blue tipped Barnes. Both were around 1.5” groups with several groups shot with both. I’m sure both will shoot tighter now with the pump not touching my barrel. The gun has been shooting 2/3” plus groups since I’ve owned it up until today. Never had to loc tite my other pump tubes and pump fore end screws in place. I would guess this caliber just vibrates and shakes things apart in the 7600 platform.

 

[SJB358]

I think I have the same carbine as you. I got mine from Kittery Trading Post a few years ago.

Glad you got a load sorted out. I’m using H4895 and the 225 Sierra in mine. When those guns are good, they act like good bolt guns.

 

[badaxeriverman]

I tell you to double check your pump slide tube to make sure the threads haven’t backed out. I sure would like to try the seirras some day. Have not tried them yet. My guess is they are a nice soft bullet that comes apart and knock stuff on their butt with tons of energy transfer versus the stout 180s. The ballistic tips on my bucket list as well.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Guess that was a minimum load charge when I just googled it. It’s amazing that only four grains of powder only jumps that load up only 150 ft./s. I remember I had a pretty good group at 59 or 59 1/2 with that powder a few years ago I’ll have to test it again. I thought I shot up one whole group but I think the barrel came loose and I only put one hole in the paper….lol. Worth testing it again anyways. Looks like it would only jump me 100 ft./s if it did shoot better with an extra three grains of powder so probably not worth the waste of powder because I don’t think a Whitetail deer would know the difference with only another hundred feet per second.

 

[NYDAN]

Congratulations on getting the issues sorted out. As far as "stumbling" on to a load goes - it sure beats burning up 100 loads worth of components.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Congratulations on getting the issues sorted out. As far as "stumbling" on to a load goes - it sure beats burning up 100 loads worth of components.

I usually never try starting loads since my most of my guns never group good till I approach max suggested loads, or a hair over max. Normally start in the middle and work my way up. I can tell you it’s a lot softer recoil than the 59 and 59.5 grain loads I previously tried with it. I would like to eventually find a “stout” load for it but but just happy I know it shoots decent now. I was about ready to throw in the towel on this gun. I’ve been to the range a half a dozen or more times and probably shot 300/400 ladder tests through it. Just wondering if the “stout” loads might have rattled it loose right off the bat?

Just glad I got lucky with this load. If I wouldn’t know, I would’ve sent it down the road because I’ve had enough of it not shooting worth a darn. Guess I’ll have to try some more loads out of it. It’s starting loads with some of the other projectiles I have and see how it does making sure the pump slide stays tight while doing so.

 

[FOTIS]

Awesome......Did you check your velocity? BTW them 180 gr Speers are tough lil bullets!

 

[badaxeriverman]

I didn’t run them through my chronograph because they’re definitely gonna be slower in my little 18 1/2 inch barrel. It said around 2650 fps on Hodgdon’s website. I’m sure that’s with the 24 inch longer test tube. I think that’s what what the quoted book load velocity on my 30-06 is with my hand loaded 180 grain core locts with what ever barrel length was quoted with that one as well. My 7600 06’ had a 22” barrel so they are problems going to be close to the same velocities I’m guessing. Just a bigger diameter bullet “thump” with my whelen. I’ve shot a few deer out of my 35 Rem 7600 carbine and they work great. Think my load data said 2,350 fps on that one in a LONG barrel. Shot a doe too far back in the liver and it made it 40 plus yards in a circle and dropped. A nice sized 8 pointer came back chasing the deer with it back to see what happened a few minutes later. I shot the buck around a 130 yards going up hill away from me. Went through the ribs and out the neck. It it walked another two steps and then stumbled backwards and fell dead. I bought the gun fit my dad. The first year he hit a 7 pointer low in the heart with a hand loaded 180 hot core. Went a good 60/80 yards before dropping dead. Had a decent blood trail with a silver dollar entrance and exit hole. Went a lot longer way than I expected it would but I’ve had it happen using my 300 RUM and 180 grain Seirra round noses. Same placed shot and it went a 125 yards. IMO they are almost too stout of a bullet for deer. They are one tough little bullet. Maybe the extra 300 fps will help it with DRT performance. Guessing with the short barrel it will be more like a 358 Win with the starting load I have it shooting good with.

 

[FOTIS]

I thoroughly concur same thing happened when I shot my boar lengthwise in Texas in my 356 Winchester

 

[RL338]

I usually never try starting loads since my most of my guns never group good till I approach max suggested loads, or a hair over max. Normally start in the middle and work my way up. I can tell you it’s a lot softer recoil than the 59 and 59.5 grain loads I previously tried with it. I would like to eventually find a “stout” load for it but but just happy I know it shoots decent now.

I’ve loaded for the 742 and 7400 and each one shot best with mild loads.

 

[badaxeriverman]

This group below is probably why I rattled the barrel loose to begin with. I found the old target I had posted a few years ago on another forum. I didn’t have any casing pressure signs and I was about 1.5 grains over max book load with H322. I was trying to get it up to Hornady super performance ammo velocity. I stacked three all in the same hole. The barrel came loose after this group. I remember after I tightened it and tried another three shot group it opened up to 1.5” the 2nd time around so I never tried the load again figuring maybe it was a fluke or only a 2 shot group with a loose barrel flyer that never even hit paper…who knows. Since it was way above book, I probably won’t try and never repeat the load. I was thinking originally I did it with 59.5 grains of H4895, but It was with H322. It still was under Sammy Max 35 Whelen pressure but imo not worth it pushing my gun with 59.5 grains of H322.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Just did my homework on the Nikon ballistic app. It said my load data on Hodgen was around 2650 fps with a 24 inch barrel. My carbine’s barrel length is 18.5” if I remember. I would have to guess about 25 fps slower per inch dropping me to around 2,500 fps. I plugged in my 180 grain Speer Hot core bullet and the 2,500 fps velocity on Nikons app and went to the ballistic chart data page. I sighted it an inch high so I played with the zeroing distance till I was an inch high at 100 yards. Looks like it can aim center mass right behind the shoulder on a deer out to 200 yards and not worry about it. Most of my shots are under 50 yards in my woods with 100 yards being a super long shot. I don’t think I have a 200 yard shot in my woods but if I do, I can aim right behind the shoulder and I’ll probably hit it low in the heart area. Even though I’m super excited that my gun finally has found a load that it likes I was bummed that it’s a starting load. I guess it shoots pretty flat or flat enough for my purposes with the load. I haven’t taken a shot over 100 yards in probably 20 years so I should be good to go. And the positive side is that the recoil is pretty wimpy compared to the ladder test. It’s about the exactly the same as my 7600 30-06 with 180 grain core locts. VS when I was trying out at Max book loads. She recoiled WAY more then my 06’ with max book loads. So basically I’m at 358 Winchester velocities with my short barrel. I’m sure the deer won’t be able to tell the difference with a few hundred ft. per second slower versus a long barrel and a max load.

 

[grry10]

We get similar groups with my son's 7600 in 35 Whelen with Sierra 225 gr GK and Reloader 17. With the hit and miss availability of components I will have to test 4895 to see if it would provide a good alternative.

 

[Blkram]

While not the 35 Whelen, my 358 Win in a BLR has a 20" barrel, and with the Hot Cor 220 gr FP, load data says 2400 fps but I get 2209 fps in the short barrel (almost 50 fps/inch velocity loss). It'll shoot 1" groups consistently at 100 yards, and several elk, moose, mule deer and a grizzly didn't seem to know the difference of the slower velocity. Mind that the longest shot on these animals was 140 yards.
I don't think most animals are going to notice the difference with your 180 gr bullet, and your shoulder will be all the happier for it.
As stated above, the 180 is a tough little bullet, which I intend to develop a load for in my wife's Marlin 35 Remington, and the 220 has done very well for me to date in the BLR.
Glad you are happy with your pump now and it is shooting well...now go forth and hunt in confidence! Happy hunting!

 

[badaxeriverman]

We get similar groups with my son's 7600 in 35 Whelen with Sierra 225 gr GK and Reloader 17. With the hit and miss availability of components I will have to test 4895 to see if it would provide a good alternative.

Always wanted to try the 225 gr seirras. I have a few hundred 220 grain hot cores I have to try out yet.

 

[badaxeriverman]

While not the 35 Whelen, my 358 Win in a BLR has a 20" barrel, and with the Hot Cor 220 gr FP, load data says 2400 fps but I get 2209 fps in the short barrel (almost 50 fps/inch velocity loss). It'll shoot 1" groups consistently at 100 yards, and several elk, moose, mule deer and a grizzly didn't seem to know the difference of the slower velocity. Mind that the longest shot on these animals was 140 yards.
I don't think most animals are going to notice the difference with your 180 gr bullet, and your shoulder will be all the happier for it.
As stated above, the 180 is a tough little bullet, which I intend to develop a load for in my wife's Marlin 35 Remington, and the 220 has done very well for me to date in the BLR.
Glad you are happy with your pump now and it is shooting well...now go forth and hunt in confidence! Happy hunting!

I have a feeling the velocity difference is with the bullet to barrel fitment. I have some “.358” Hornadys in 250 grains and 200 grains that both measure .357” and some “.358” 250 grain Norma’s that measure .3565” they don’t group worth a darn in my barrel that slugs at .358” the 180 grain Hot cores measure .358 to .3585” so they are at least the same size as what my barrel slugs. hornady told me to send them back which I probably will do for a replacement years ago I had some 180 grain hot cores that were crushing my necks. They were .360 to .362! Speer told me they were out of spec and replaced them with. The new ones are .358/.3585” and seat nicely. Now that I can with the Speers I’ll probably send those hornady bulllets back in for replacement.

Just a quick update I called Hornady and they’re sending a return label, but Hornady said they’d replace the boxes soon as they get them back. They said they would measure them regardless and let me know what they’re measuring on their end. I’ll have to dig through my stuff because I think I might have 2 boxes of 200 grainers…or I went completely through a box of them trying to group.

I figure since I’m on a roll I might as well. Try Norma and see if they’ll replace what I have left as well of the .3565” 250 grain Norma Oryx’s.

 

[rickt300]

I happened to have the makings of a Whelen laying around. An FN Mauser action and a Green Mountain short chambered barrel. Had it chambered and headspaced and there it was. A great shooter from the get go. I had in the past used a 358 Win chambered Browing BLR, one of the early steel ones but I was talked out of it for more cash by far than I had in it. I missed it though as it was a decisive killer. I thought about building another 358 on a Mauser but the 35 Whelen was the easy button. I load it to 2300 fps with the 250 grain Hornady RN or the Speer Spitzer. I did use the 220 Speer flat nose on a few deer and a big hog but it just seemed it wasn't opening fast enough to suit me. Both the 250's expand an penetrate meeting all expectations.

 

[badaxeriverman]

I figured those Speer 220s are tough bullets meant to be driven at max whelen velocities on moose and elk sized game…and bigger. Think I have at least 200 of them. I know they’re impossible to get since they don’t make them anymore and everybody’s after them. I’ve never tried them yet. I ended up with thrm I pin trade for a bunch of my Cast .3595” 200 grain hollow points.

Update: received an email from hornady saying they shipped a replacement of one box each of the 200 and 250 grainers. I’ll measure and post back if they are hopefully .358 or a hair bigger. Barnes and Norma both were sent in for inspection as well. Haven’t heard anything from them. Norma did tell me they didn’t have any .358’s in stock. They were nice enough to tell me I could pick anything up to 73 bucks in exchange once they had a chance to inspect the bullets and confirm they were undersized. I can’t believe how expensive the 358 are on their website at $112 for 50….ouch! I did see they had 35 Whelen brass as well but they’re out of stock on that as well. I tickled about that. They also had small pistol primers in some oddball off brand which I probably could pick and still have money left over. Since they were $49.99. I almost wanna get two bricks of those.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Congratulations on getting the issues sorted out. As far as "stumbling" on to a load goes - it sure beats burning up 100 loads worth of components.

I loaded 40 of them up the other day for the upcoming rifle season. I also pinned tumbled my brass so the inside of the case necks were nice and clean versus my test loads. They seeded way easier so now I’m paranoid but there’s not as much neck tension but I’m sure they’re probably just fine and will shoot just as accurate. I also made sure to trim all my cases before I loaded them up this time around. I probably should’ve annealed them as well. They’re probably four or five times fired or even more. I noticed one out of the 40 that the primer went in pretty easy so I know my cases have been pushed hard ladder testing already. I’m sure the last tons of more shootings but I’ll make sure to anneal them before loading again.

 

[badaxeriverman]

Thanks to an awesome member here that ran quick loads for me. Apparently, my load is faster than what I thought it was. I would guess loading it shorter at 3.030” vs the listed 3.040” length on Hodgens load data website must have gave it a velocity gain. Great to hear. Call have to run it across my chronograph someday after deer hunting as long over just to check for myself. That at least gets me up to 30-06 factory ammo velocities.

https://imgur.com/3g7KslV

Hodgen’s data I pulled off their website

https://imgur.com/PUZ9Wmb