Help with loads for 6.5x55

[35 Whelen]

Thanks Scotman, you always look out for me olde boy..................... good thing somebody does!
I will start 4 low, and thank you.
Tnx
e

 

[jimbires]

Jim,
That all sounds like rock solid advise, and I am certainly going to use it. Super nice of you to help, and share your.extensive reloading knowledge. As your all well aware
My experience is much more in the field, than at the bench.
I am a lot more likely to post pics of trophy animals, than targets with tiny groups.
However to be able to draw on the Knowledge that exist on this board, when a fella needs some direction is superlative. Thanks a bunch for your help, it's truly appreciated.
PS. What is that load that sends the 140 Vlds over 3k; in the 708???? I would like to introduce it, to mine!!!!

in this 7-08 , I use a 140 berger hunting VLD , Norma brass , CCI200 primer , 49.0 grains of RL17 powder , 24" bbl . this is a little over a max charge in my rifle . it might not be safe in another rifle , so please work up towards this .

E, you're welcome, I'm glad I could help . I agree with you , there are a lot of smart fellas here that keep our questions answered .

 

[35 Whelen]

Thanks Jim,
I had no idea it was possible to shoot a 140gr bullet from a.708 that fast??? On the surface I would have though if case capacity was similar with the 6.5 x55 vs.708 ( not sure those numbers) I just assumed the 6.5 would be faster???? 708 case capacity=52.5grs vs 6.5x55 case capacity=55grs.Got that from Chuck Hawks data is that NOT right???
On the lite side of things I recently discovered of the 3 old
Reloading manuals I have none are new enough to have
The 7mm08 listed in them??? Lol :lol:

It allways cracks me up to read a gunwriters review that likes a 260R or 708 when they compare them to the Sweede as they always want to use full preasure loads of 52k cup for the former, and 45k cup for the later................. when everyone knows you have always been able to simply buy 139gr "Norma ammo" that has always been 2850fps, for thiry years............... it obviously isnt loaded to 45K, and may NOT be safe in some of these old guns, but that has nothing to do with "modern rifles".
However that is always buried in the equations. Ditto for everyone comparing 308 to 30/06 exact same deal, sorta same as comparing Catfish to Brook Trout. :lol:
Case n Point, of all the factory loaded ammo I see listed for 708 none of it will shoot a 139gr bullet as fast as a standard Norma loading for a Sweede ....................... the exception being only the Hornady Superformance. So that is pretty interesting as well. I found that 2800 seamed to be about "standard" for the 708 commerical loads. Rem, Fed P, Fusion, WW, .

 

[jimbires]

I bought new manuals here and there for years . since I bought quickload I have not bought a manual . I like the way quickload is able to be set up for a particular rifle . I also like being able to get powder / velocity charts . I've probably saved the price of quickload by not buying the wrong powders .


this is a smoking load in the 7-08 . it's pretty accurate too . I get good brass life . the small dots across the top are from this rifle , remington . 48.0 left , 48.5 middle , 49.0 right . the big lower target is my 7-08 tikka . this is a 200 yard target .the remington loads would be shot from a bipod .

 

[SJB358]

I think as a general rule of thumb, a 140 will run about 2800-2850 from a 22" 7-08 with alot of powders, get into some of the others like 17 and such and you can run them a little faster but that is where my heads at with it.

Same for the 6.5 Swede, I think 2700-2800 or so from a 140 with quite a few powders but when you get into some of the newer ones, 2800 and change seems possible and safe as well.

We shall see, bullets change up speeds as well. A smaller bearing surface on a VLD is typically going to be able to be driven faster than an Interlock or AccuBond.. It's all relative.

But today, with the sleek bullets we have, a 100 FPS doesn't mean an awfully lot since we can dope the shots. Wind is always the enemy there.

 

[gerry]

I have had excellent results with IMR 7828 ssc in a Ruger 6.5x55 I used to have and foolishly sold, IMR 4350 was great too. In my wife's Tikka T3 we use H 4350 for the 120 gr Ballistic Tip's with great accuracy and it shot decently with the 140 gr Partition's. H 4350 and the 140 gr SST did very well too. Have loaded up a couple of different 140's with IMR 4955 but haven't had a chance to shoot them yet, it should work well I'm hoping.

 

[1Shot]

I have a number of Swede military rifles but years ago I picked up a 96 Mauser that BUBBA had been hacking on. I made a sporter out of it. I left the long 29" barrel on it. With the max loads listed in the Accurate manual that is supposed to be under 46000 CUP with Accurate 4350 I average 3000 fps with 120 Sierra and Ballistic tips and 2850 fps with 140 Sierra and Hornady bullets. Both shoot bug holes and have killed deer DRT for years for me. That long barrel really gets more velocity with the lower pressure loads. Matter of fact I am going to give the old gal a make over. I just picked up a Vortex Viper 30mm tube 6.5-20x44 scope to put on it and I am going to order a Boyds laminated stock for it. It has a low quality Tupperware stock on it right now and a old BSA scope.

 

[35 Whelen]

Those are some excellent upgrades for that old Sweede
Be sure and post some pics of it when you get it all tricked
Out!
E

 

[baltz526]

I kept seeing alot of good things about the VV N560 powder all over the internet, so cruised over to Midway to see if they had it......... WOW, I dont care how good it is..... its almost $50 per pound :evil: what is that all about??

I have read the socialist country where these powders are made charge an export tax. So if the powder maker wants to sell outside its borders. It must pay for the privilege. It is not better powder, just higher taxed powder.

 

[35 Whelen]

Here it is with the Berger Vld 140s with a healthy dose of RL26 sitting under it!

 

[SJB358]

Looks LONG!

 

[35 Whelen]

Lol it is.........

 

[Blkram]

My pet loads for my 6.5x55 Remington 700 Classics were the max load in each of the Nosler No 3 and Barnes No 1 manuals for the 140 gr Partition and X Bullets, with IMR4350, respectively.

Both were 1 MOA or better, with the Barnes shooting 1" groups for 5 rounds at 200 yards. I never chrony'd these loads, but the moose, deer and stone sheep didn't seem to know whether or not these rounds were achieving the listed velocities!

 

[gerry]

Here it is with the Berger Vld 140s with a healthy dose of RL26 sitting under it!

What is your overall length With that bullet seated like that?

 

[35 Whelen]

Now I am going to ask a stupid question, completely forgetting about the old pressure restrictions concerning
6.5 Sweedessince they don't apply to modern firearms anymore) WHY is shooting the same bullet weight in a
.284 bullets in a 308 case faster, than a .264 bullet in a Sweede case???? ( What am I missing on this one,) Case Capacity look almost identical??? The larger diameter bullet is faster because???????????
So why are reloaders struggling to get 2800fps, with 139gr Bullets, when factory Norma 139gr cartridges
Have been 2850fps for 30 years??? I am lost here???

 

[jimbires]

I remember in my one reloading manual that the 308 was shooting a higher velocity than the 30.06 when both used the same (I think ) 150 grain bullet . they made a comment this is what turns ballisticians gray , or crazy ,or something like this . I'd say with all the new powders this is not the case anymore .
I sure wouldn't try to explain it . I guess it's the perfect combination

 

[35 Whelen]

Case n Point, 338/06 vs 35 Whelan same weight bullets, the smaller diameter bullet is "faster",from same case same pressure, but in this instance the 708 vs 6.5 same powder capacity,same weight bullet and this time the larger diameter is faster???
This does NOT make sense to me at all.....
Can we actually also say, if we loaded both cases with say 50grs of RL 26, and use the same weight bullet, that the larger diameter bullet is going to be faster???
I am going to have to get time to try this myself and see what the Chrono says............... I am starting to get that smoke and mirrors feeling here.
Ditto on your excellent reference to.308 being as fast or faster than a 30/06 .......... I have a dear old friend that absolutely loves a.308. He told me for years his 308 would shoot right beside a 30/06. So when I first bought a Chrono, I invited him to bring over his best load and try it thru the Chronograph, he did
And was very surprised it wasn't quite up to what his "books" that had been his Bibles for years, had told him. I then took the opertunity to whistle a few hot loads at full pressure through the hoops, right in front of him, and of course he was sucking wind by almost 200 fps.........he has never mentioned 308s to us, from that day to this......
That certainly doesn't mean a factory load in 308 ,isn't basically close to the "extreamly deloaded factory low pressure 30/06 loads "avalible to the public at the local Walmart, because it is.
Same reference ,different source ;Hornady Superformance Ammo: Probably pretty much accepted as the fastest factory ammo; avalible to non hand loaders. Even with their liability concerns with 30/06 loads. They list the little.308 with 165gr bullets, at 125 fps behind their same Superformance 30/06 load for same bullet. Even though their 308 load is at full pressure, and of course the 06 is not because of all the old rattle trap actions still in use............

 

[jimbires]

no smoke and mirrors , and I'm not a liar . a picture is worth a thousand words .

 

[DrMike]

The difference can be accounted for by referring to the difference in bearing surface. The .284 will have less resistance than the .264.

 

[SJB358]

The difference can be accounted for by referring to the difference in bearing surface. The .284 will have less resistance than the .264.

Along with the bore being larger in a 7mm vs a 6.5 allowing more room to push on the base of a bullet.

Everything being the same the 338-06 will hit higher pressures than a 35 Whelen using the same bullet weight. Again, more bullet to push on and larger bore for gas expansion in a larger bore.

Here is a decent reference just for grins.

Cartridge : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet : .264, 140, Nosler AccuBond 57873
Useable Case Capaci: 51.828 grain H2O = 3.365 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.00 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.087% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.9 88 41.00 2479 1911 44133 10451 96.4 1.324
-09.8 89 41.50 2508 1955 45597 10579 96.8 1.304
-08.7 90 42.00 2536 1999 47107 10702 97.2 1.284
-07.6 91 42.50 2564 2044 48666 10823 97.5 1.265
-06.5 92 43.00 2592 2089 50275 10939 97.8 1.246
-05.4 93 43.50 2620 2134 51934 11051 98.2 1.227
-04.3 94 44.00 2648 2180 53647 11160 98.4 1.208
-03.3 95 44.50 2676 2226 55415 11264 98.7 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
-02.2 96 45.00 2704 2273 57241 11364 98.9 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 97 45.50 2732 2320 59126 11459 99.1 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 98 46.00 2759 2367 61072 11550 99.3 1.138 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 99 46.50 2787 2415 63082 11636 99.5 1.121 ! Near Maximum !
+02.2 101 47.00 2815 2463 65159 11717 99.6 1.105 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 102 47.50 2842 2511 67305 11794 99.8 1.089 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 103 48.00 2869 2560 69523 11865 99.9 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.4 104 48.50 2897 2609 71815 11931 99.9 1.058 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 46.00 2864 2550 71345 11216 100.0 1.064 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 46.00 2613 2123 50922 11393 95.0 1.235


Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 140, Nosler AccuBond 59992
Useable Case Capaci: 46.790 grain H2O = 3.038 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.064% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.6 100 42.00 2516 1968 42747 8399 90.6 1.242
-09.6 101 42.50 2547 2017 44301 8518 91.2 1.222
-08.5 102 43.00 2578 2066 45912 8634 91.8 1.202
-07.4 103 43.50 2609 2116 47588 8748 92.3 1.183
-06.4 104 44.00 2640 2167 49330 8860 92.9 1.163
-05.3 105 44.50 2671 2218 51141 8968 93.4 1.145
-04.3 107 45.00 2702 2270 53023 9074 93.9 1.126
-03.2 108 45.50 2734 2323 54989 9177 94.4 1.108
-02.1 109 46.00 2765 2376 57031 9277 94.9 1.091 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 110 46.50 2796 2430 59158 9373 95.4 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 111 47.00 2827 2485 61375 9466 95.8 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 113 47.50 2859 2540 63684 9556 96.2 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
+02.1 114 48.00 2890 2596 66095 9642 96.6 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.2 115 48.50 2921 2653 68606 9724 97.0 1.006 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 116 49.00 2953 2711 71217 9802 97.3 0.990 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.3 117 49.50 2984 2769 73936 9876 97.7 0.975 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 111 47.00 2966 2735 73084 9494 99.4 0.982 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 111 47.00 2649 2182 50382 9013 88.7 1.151


H4350 is a pretty decent powder in both but honestly, for optimum performance I'd actually use something like RL17 for the 7-08 and RL26 for the 6.5 Swede to get the most most speed from either. But they are really both in the same ballpark for the most part. I'd bet most barrels and chambers will make a bigger difference in those two than the couple of grains of capacity. Just my opinion though. Got a ton of loading with the 7mm Mauser and Swede, but fairly little really for the 7-08.