- Oct 30, 2004
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I have some 105 Amaxes on hand....
The gun is not on hand....
The gun is not on hand....
Hey Nosler, why an EIGHTH 6mm bullet weighing 85-100 grains?
- Thread starter Songdog
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
SJB358":2hoslw69 said:
I was thinking about this all afternoon.... and I've come to the conclusion that Nosler is NOT capable of doing this.... at least not at this time. If anyone here is familiar with how Nosler bullets are produced.... they will follow this line of reasoning.... it may be faulty, but it's all I have for now.
When Noslers are built... the jacket starts as a solid copper billet.... then work it into shape through a series of dies and punches. The Amax (we'll use it because it is really where the NBT should be) is a cup and core bullet, meaning the jacket starts life as a flat disc of copper and then is drawn into a cup shape and the core is inserted before final sizing. It is far easier and cheaper to produce bullets this way. Nosler's manufacturing process isn't capable of quick change and tooling like C/C manufacturers can. The bullets cost more to produce.... so they cost more to buy. I reckon it doesn't make much sense to do all the work to re-tool.... all the R&D (though I volunteer my services to shoot whatever, with whatever, in the name of Research).... market it.... and then put it on the market for twice the money the competition wants. So.... you concede the loss... and work on a way to grab it back in another area.
At the end of the day.... slick cool bullets is not what Nosler is about (but it was when they introduced the NBT).... and I can fully understand that. They aren't going out of business anytime soon, and have focused on some other projects (monolithics, rifles). They make tough bullets.... the Partition was/is/always will be a great hunting bullet... and the NBT is a classic in its own right. But... I'll buy no more "hunting" NBTs... and that is a bummer.
These two pics were taken today.... note what's in-stock, and prices.... these are worth a thousand words.... and demonstrate exactly what is happening to Nosler's market share.... at least in 6mm:
Nosler:
Hornady:
'nuff said.....
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,951
- 1,917
As it stands now it looks like Nosler can barely keep up with the producing the bullets they are making now. It looks like they still haven't made the first run of 35 cal 200 gr bullets yet. They must be doing something right.
- Nov 4, 2004
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Good points Songdog.
I agree with you that a heavy for caliber, ie: 100-105 gr AB would be a big success. I was very surprised when Nosler announced a 338 cal 300 gr AB. This is a long bullet, with a BC of .720. A similer offering in 6mm with a high BC would be a winner and Nosler would take market share quickly.
As of today, no word on the 6mm 90 gr AB.
JD338
I agree with you that a heavy for caliber, ie: 100-105 gr AB would be a big success. I was very surprised when Nosler announced a 338 cal 300 gr AB. This is a long bullet, with a BC of .720. A similer offering in 6mm with a high BC would be a winner and Nosler would take market share quickly.
As of today, no word on the 6mm 90 gr AB.
JD338
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,388
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Sportsman warehouse
Loveland, Colorado
Loveland, Colorado
- Thread starter
- #26
YoteSmoker
Handloader
- Oct 3, 2006
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Songdog, I think the reason we don't see a lot of heavy weight 6mm is that most factory 243s come in 10 twist except Remington with 9.25 twist. I believe the A-max says it's designed for 8 twist on the label which means custom barrels needed in a fast twist.
- Thread starter
- #28
The Amax is rated 1/9".... and is a hit/miss proposition for most 1/10". The only factory .243 that I know of with a 1/10" twist is the Tikka.... the rest are 1/9"-1/9.5". Furthermore.... the 105 Horn. HPBT has a BC of .530 and is rated for 1/10" pipes....
And we are seeing a lot of heavies for the 6mm.... pert'near everyone makes one now:
Lapua
Berger
Horn.
Sierra
Norma
I was really hoping to hear from someone at Nosler on this....
And we are seeing a lot of heavies for the 6mm.... pert'near everyone makes one now:
Lapua
Berger
Horn.
Sierra
Norma
I was really hoping to hear from someone at Nosler on this....
YoteSmoker
Handloader
- Oct 3, 2006
- 1,602
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My Encore is and a-bolt was 10 twist. I'd sure be interested to know if the Encore would shoot the 105 a-max and may take you up on your offer to try a few. What powder are you running? I shot 8 twist 6 br that shot extremely well with 107 matchkings and varget.
257 Ackley
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2008
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I am going to be building a 6X47 p-dog rifle after the 6.5X47 with an 8 twist barrel. I never planned on using Nosler bullets. Figured it would be Hornady, Berger and Lapua that would fight for my dollars. I really like Nosler hunting bullets for big game where I am shooting less than 400 yards, but figure they have left the long, high BC bullet market for others to fill.
One of the things I have learned in the business world is you can't be all things to all people. This might be Nosler's philosophy...stick to what they do well and let others have other parts of the shooting market.
One of the things I have learned in the business world is you can't be all things to all people. This might be Nosler's philosophy...stick to what they do well and let others have other parts of the shooting market.
- Thread starter
- #31
YoteSmoker":16g9hwxd said:
My rifles favorite load is 46.5 grains of IMR7828(ssc) with a CCI200 Primer.... it clocks a tick over 3100 from a 24" factory pipe. I shoot them about .015" into the lands for a COAL of 2.830 inches.... which runs fine from a Rem. 700 s/a mag.
Let me know if you want to go out and bomb a few.... got a new prototype Hitch Bench that I need to try out. By the way.... I saw two coyotes down near Chamber's and Dartmouth... you might want to take care of them....
Gm weatherby man
Handloader
- Dec 19, 2010
- 287
- 5
I love this forum,i did not relize that the 243 would not stabilize a 120 grn bullet could of sworn i have seen 120 factory ammo 20 years ago in a round nose. :? :idea: never the less a 100 grn AccuBond would have been better, and with hornaby heaver is really a good idea for i find their use of lead on the soft side and have left me trailing game more than once on deer, where as use of same load with gk bullets have take hard hits on moose and always taken them down.Now with their gmx and like bullets, i will give them their chance in the bush once again.
SD, you are right, the ABs and BT's and the PT's are made from solid pieces of copper wire, where as the Custom Comps are smashed outta discs. Nosler does have their 107 Custom Comp out there, along with a 105 CC. I imagine they think they are competing fine with those two, since the Amax was originally thought more a target than game bullet till recently.
257 Ackley
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2008
- 1,763
- 0
My gunsmith said he has built 3 rifles in that caliber this past year for guys that use them for ringing steel and p-dog shoots. The bullet of choice has been the 95 Berger. He said it is really nasty and does a great job on windy days in the field.
The guys shooting 105 - 107 grain bullets are getting between 3050 and 3100 fps. That is better than a 243 can do with those bullets I think. The Lapua case is simply necked down and fireformed, so there isn't much work involved and allows you to use Lapua brass. This makes more sense to me for a p-dog caliber than the 6.5X47 unless you are planning on using it for competitions like F-class.
The guys shooting 105 - 107 grain bullets are getting between 3050 and 3100 fps. That is better than a 243 can do with those bullets I think. The Lapua case is simply necked down and fireformed, so there isn't much work involved and allows you to use Lapua brass. This makes more sense to me for a p-dog caliber than the 6.5X47 unless you are planning on using it for competitions like F-class.
- Thread starter
- #36
257 Ackley":1usvpqvo said:
That's exactly what a 22"-24" SAAMI .243 will do.... my 24" .243 will scoot a 105 Amax over 3k with the only 3 powders I've tried. I can get 3050 with 41 grains of RE17.... don't know what it'd take in a 6x47.... but it's pretty close though. That's a lot of stomp at 600 yards for a paltry starting dose of powder.
When I was at Nosler recently I was shown some cup and core processing in the plant. I think Nosler's issues are one of production capacity. They are increasing production but they can only bring so many presses on line at a given time. They have been expanding in many other areas as well - Rifles, ammunition and other bullets. What we ask for we usually get. It's nice to have a company that listens as well as Nosler does.
Scott
Scott
257 Ackley":1c2elxqp said:
I shoot the 95gr(486 B.C.) Berger in my 6-284 - it performs with aplomb. The Nosler and Norma Brass have been excellent to work with. I can ring the 8" gong at 600yds with ease on the first shot. Antelope at 453yds and a yote at 387yds. The Berger about blew that coyote in half. This summer I'm looking to find a little heavier constructed bullet and load that'll be a little less worrisome on bigger deer.
Scott
