High fence hunting ranches

I have never visited Estonia, so assuming I am still above ground next Dec. AND you can find someone strong enough, like Scotty, Hodgeman or Bear, who could carry me piggyback so you and I could follow the dogs till we down a moose, then count me in. Just think about it you will be hunting with someone ancient AND using an ancient caliber all at the same time, how cool is that,

Except for those elk horns over the bed, I like your style salmon chaser

Several good posts in this thread that provide not just good information but gives us hunters different views, opinions and circumstances to consider. I must admit there is one sentence in the middle off one post that I wish was not on a thread I started but I will leave it up to fotis whether our not that one sentence should remain or not. the post should not be deleted, as it provides an honest opinion, but perhaps one sentence in the middle of the post maybe should disappeared.
 
Saw that, made me snort my coffee out my nose.
I think we bring all the boys and have them carry you around in a manchan. It'll be fun!


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salmonchaser":xcev45t8 said:
These discussions are great. Rational men and women should revel at the opportunity to engage in them. Would I do a high fence hunt? Depends. If I finally make it to Africa that might be the option, but I'll ask a lot of questions about how big etc. before I send money.
Let my dogs run deer, never.
Click to expand...
Well said Salmonchaser!
 
Here is another angle to consider. Smaller high fenced “hunt clubs” have greatly contributed to the spread of disease among elk and deer, both here and internationally. CWD being the worst.

The various TSE (transmissible spongiform encephalopathy) are a very real issue that I fear will greatly effect our hunting opportunities in the future. CWD chronic wasting in deer and elk, BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) in cattle and bison aka mad cow disease, scrapie in sheep, and CJD (
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease) and Kuru in humans.

They are all basically the same thing. A rogue prion that destroys neurons in the brain. Very infectious, non treatable and only shows symptoms in last 6 weeks of life. I won’t bore you with the clinical details but earliest recorded scrapie in sheep in the 1700s. Believed to have jumped to cows thru feeding rendered supplements, and then jumped to some people thru eating cows. It’s a very low transmission between species but has been recorded.

High fences are being used in Norway where three caribou were found to have CWD, a large scale eradication program is being used to kill off any potentially effected moose or caribou. Essentially isolating any animals and areas effected for 10 years.

If it jumped from CWD to cows in the US, it could greatly effect our beef industry, which would lead to all sorts of management problems.
If it became enough of a problem here in the us, the only possible solution would be to fence off uneffected areas and kill the rest off.

That could mean an end of all hunting as we know it now.






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Lots of great opinions and things to learn on this thread.

Sometimes when I’m hunting I get frustrated enough to think that if someone hogtied my prey to a tree I’d shoot it. I have yet however to participate in a high fence small plot hunt and likely won’t for any big game species.

On another topic but sort of in line with this thread; What about hunting non native species like Kudu in Texas?

Vince


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Vince, a lot of animals have been introduced into other countries. Oryx and Ibex in New Mexico, Fallow in South Africa, Red Deer and Chamois in New Zealand, several different species in Argentina, as examples. However to my knowledge all of these are free ranging and would be fair chase hunts, as the Kudu you speak of in Texas is a high fence hunt.

Vince I KNOW some of my thinking about this is because of my age and sometimes we older folks get set in our ways. But hunting a Kudu in Africa, for me, brings one so much more that "shooting the animal". I think those here, who have hunted Africa will understand my point.

Bear78, you have brought up some interesting points and as some here know Cheyenne is currently studying the items you have brought up in both your posts.

Thank you Fotis,
 
Hmmm I've been thinking which is a dangerous thing for me to do but pen raised Pheasants helped to eradicate the wild stock( bird flu ) here along with modern farming practices.
All of this was done in the name of making more money since the farmers need to make better use of their land for more profit so did the game farms with pen raised birds released into the wild habitat spreading disease.
When Maryland stopped stocking pen raised Turkeys and went to trapping and relocating them they flourished and have been used to restock other states where the wild turkey had been eradicated due to over hunting and disease.
If I remember right Anthrax threatened much of the cattle herds in the west due to practices of penning and the spores would live dormant in the soil till a herd would disturb the ground causing them to be air born and infecting healthy animals.
It would serve all of us well if the states would hire professional hunters to target animals with CWD and destroy them completely.
Feeding game herds may seem like the humane thing to do in the winter but mother nature should be allowed to take it's course and allow the weak to die off. JMO
 
Sadly there is no way to know if an animal has CWD or not thru behavior until the last 6 weeks before death, so for 1-3 years they are infectious but not symptomatic. The infectious material binds with clays in soil increasing its infectious ness by 700 times and can remain there for up to a decade. It would take a systemic long term program of eradication to really curb the disease.


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Use to raise about 1000 pheasant in a fight pen and turn them loose for wing shooting. It wasn't hunting. We raised Indian Ringnecks, they were faster and better flyers than the few native birds.

We didn't have a huge property so dizzying or drop boxes were necessary. The area historically was good habitat for birds, but changes in farming practices, primarily a change from grain to alfalfa, ended that. So it was canned bird wing shooting or no shooting. Met some nice folks, ended up with some great bird dogs. It was a lot of work for no real financial gain.

I'd go to a ranch again to shoot birds no problem. I don't think I'd be interested in high fence big game, but private property without the Googan Squad all around would be just fine with me.
 
Thebear_78":2cuh7her said:
Sadly there is no way to know if an animal has CWD or not thru behavior until the last 6 weeks before death, so for 1-3 years they are infectious but not symptomatic. The infectious material binds with clays in soil increasing its infectious ness by 700 times and can remain there for up to a decade. It would take a systemic long term program of eradication to really curb the disease.


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Click to expand...

CWD was found in the deer herd in north-central CO about 10-12 years ago. The CDOW (at the time, now CPW) decided eradication was the best way to deal with it. It was spectacularly unsuccessful in preventing the spread of CWD, and the deer population is just now starting to rebound.
 
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with high fences and nothing wrong with not liking them either. I'd hunt one in a heart beat "if" it met my standards especially considering that some places are so large here that generations of deer live and die never seeing a fence or a hunter. And there are places so small they are nothing but a large pen.

As a native Texan I've seen both sides of the high fence scenario. In reading Burce's post I agree with him 100% regarding the guy who has 50 acres and a neighbor puts up a high fence. Tough for that poor guy. On the other hand I've seen many instances where some other guy with 50 or less acres will hunt the living daylights out of that little piece of land including leasing it out to day hunters. For the neighbor with a large acreage that only means he can't expect to be able to do any management with that yahoo next door shooting anything that jumps his fence. Same 50 acres but, way different situations.

Years ago many of the large ranches here started being cut up into "ranchettes" and people started buying them up hoping to get a little place adjacent a larger ranch. With this there has been way too much of a "if brown it's down" mentality. Some ranches have been putting up high fences to stop poaching and over hunting by pesky neighbors. This last December I hunted a ranch that had a high fence around two sides. The other sides were barbed wire. The purpose of the high fence was to stop poaching by lousy neighbors.

My two cents on the subject is I often have to hunt places that are small with other hunters so a stalk hunt is dangerous. If I did not want to compromise something it would mean staying home. So, I have to evaluate a place for what it is and decide if there is enough of a good experience for me to hunt. For me that means if I ever wished to hunt a high fence it would have to be large enough for deer to be deer.

Anyway, I do what I do and avoid places that don't suite me.
 
In general I'm opposed to high fenced hunting. When I was younger and hunting the west I was offered a couple of fenced hunts at a real good price. I declined.
However, if I was offered a hunt in Africa for free I would drop my morality and accept forthwith.
A decade or so ago I was trapping a lot of wild hogs. All the nice big boars I caught were sold to a wild hog hunting outfit. Now they didn't hunt my boars, they bred them and hunted the offspring. People of all ages would come to hunt these animals, mostly from Atlanta and other big city's. The big thing was killing your boar with a knife. The hog would be held motionless by vicious dogs and the "Hunter" would walk in and stick the hog. All this in a pen that you could see all 4 sides of the fence. Next was the obligatory photo's soon posted on their website showing the brave, smiling hunter with a dead hog and bloody knife.
This is the only fenced hunting I really have knowledge of and I know some think it's fine and real hunting, so I won't say what I really think.
A bear is secretive and lives in the deep, dark woods. To even see one often requires a baitpile to coax it out. I don't have a problem with that.
Cougars can be tougher so dogs must be used. I started deer hunting behind dogs when young. I have no problem with that at all.
You stand HERE. The animal has thousands of miles of wilderness to escape you. That's not even close to high fenced hunting.
But on a different side to things; I live in what once was the cradle of Gentleman Bob. The bobwhite quail. Immortalized so eloquently by Robert Ruark. As all country boys we kept a bird dog or two around the place and in my youth I spent a lot of time hunting quail.
I really miss those days. But if one wants to hunt quail today you basically must go to a preserve and hunt pen raised birds. I have done this twice, both boys got a bird hunt as a graduation present, just so they would have some idea what it was like back in the day.
I would do it again. As I age I get a yearning to hunt behind a good dog one more time.
 
Darkhorse":176us32k said:
In general I'm opposed to high fenced hunting. When I was younger and hunting the west I was offered a couple of fenced hunts at a real good price. I declined.
However, if I was offered a hunt in Africa for free I would drop my morality and accept forthwith.
A decade or so ago I was trapping a lot of wild hogs. All the nice big boars I caught were sold to a wild hog hunting outfit. Now they didn't hunt my boars, they bred them and hunted the offspring. People of all ages would come to hunt these animals, mostly from Atlanta and other big city's. The big thing was killing your boar with a knife. The hog would be held motionless by vicious dogs and the "Hunter" would walk in and stick the hog. All this in a pen that you could see all 4 sides of the fence. Next was the obligatory photo's soon posted on their website showing the brave, smiling hunter with a dead hog and bloody knife.
This is the only fenced hunting I really have knowledge of and I know some think it's fine and real hunting, so I won't say what I really think.
A bear is secretive and lives in the deep, dark woods. To even see one often requires a baitpile to coax it out. I don't have a problem with that.
Cougars can be tougher so dogs must be used. I started deer hunting behind dogs when young. I have no problem with that at all.
You stand HERE. The animal has thousands of miles of wilderness to escape you. That's not even close to high fenced hunting.
But on a different side to things; I live in what once was the cradle of Gentleman Bob. The bobwhite quail. Immortalized so eloquently by Robert Ruark. As all country boys we kept a bird dog or two around the place and in my youth I spent a lot of time hunting quail.
I really miss those days. But if one wants to hunt quail today you basically must go to a preserve and hunt pen raised birds. I have done this twice, both boys got a bird hunt as a graduation present, just so they would have some idea what it was like back in the day.
I would do it again. As I age I get a yearning to hunt behind a good dog one more time.
Click to expand...
IMG_0886.JPGIMG_0864.JPG
Miss Sugar hates Gentlemen Bob, seen her go right by a rooster when she has quail scent. Molly Dammit doesn't care what it is. She simply expects the hunters to knock them down so she can chew on them a little.


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I'm disappointed to have learned what has happened to Bob Whites. One of my bucket list hunts was to head south to plantation country with a fine side by side just to do it.


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Your photo's tempt me salmonchaser. I never had a fine double but I had a few stevens side by sides. My favorite was a 20 gauge. But as soon as possible I got an 870 cause I thought I needed that 3rd. shot. Ours wasn't fancy hunting. It was just hunting and our guns had their share of scratches and dents.
I was hunting quail right at the end of their reign but we didn't know it at the time.
Timber production, farmers clearing every corner to plant it, and predators have wrought havoc on the wild birds. Among other things of course.
For wild birds I would look to Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. It's kaput around here.
 
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