I gave in to the peer pressure.

[onesonek]

Guess I'm the last one left who doesn't have a Whelen???

No your not :lol: I'm in the same boat. And while the .35 Whelen is a great round and I would love to have one, I'm not so sure I ever will. Having a want to fill the gap I have between the .30 and 9.3,,,,I'm leaning towards the .338-06 for my next purchase. The .35 Whelen is just too close to what I am getting from the 9.3x74R for me to justify both at this point and time.

I'd simply say this.... I've owned a .338/06 and it's a great round; very close to .35 Whelen specs. But I've yet to find from numbers I've seen where it's any better at any weight bullet of 180gr & above to make make me choose it over the Whelen. Perhaps the .338 fed might be what you want, if the Whelen is too close to the 9.3x74R (which I also own). The .35W 225s at a brisk pace are something that the 9.3 simply cannot match (IMHO) tho.....

I'm looking at diameter between .30 and 36. Now why would the .338 Fed have anything over the .338-06?,,,As for the difference between the .338-06 and Whelen, arguements could be made for both, however, if I was shooting the .35 Whelen (which I mentioned I wouldn't mind having also), it would be loaded with 250's, 225's in the .338. Although, I did neglect to mention, if I did do the .338-06, it would be AI'd also.
Other than that, I also might disagree on the 9.3 part.
What are you shooting the 74 out of?
FWIW, I'm shooting out of 26" Douglas throated a bit longer than book's suggested OAL. With the 286 gr. PT's at 3.865" OAL, and the older 250 BT's at 3.910" AOL in an Encore, giving me 2500 and 2600 fps respectively using VV-N165 and H-4831, and good brass life. I have some 250 AB's here I intend to give a try with RL-22,,,,they just might beat the prior load?????

Not trying to stray from the OP,,,sorry, and certainly not trying to detract from the Whelen

 

[JD338]

geo,

Congratulations on the 35 Whelen. It is one fantastic cartridge, you are going to love it. RL 15 is the powder of choice.
Take a look at the VX-3 2.5-8x36mm, its a perfect match for the 35 Whelen.

JD338

 

[onesonek]

Thanks guy. As soon as I can find a scope and some dies I plan to start loading with the 225 Partitions (SPS has a good price on overruns right now.) But I am willing to take any suggestions. The rifle’s first assignment will be for elk and black bear.

I was invited join a co-worker on a hunt this year. We will be hunting public land on the edge of Diamond Peak Wilderness in the Willamette National Forest near Oakridge, OR.

It and the 225 PT will serve you well, I have no doubt!!

 

[gerry]

Thanks guy. As soon as I can find a scope and some dies I plan to start loading with the 225 Partitions (SPS has a good price on overruns right now.) But I am willing to take any suggestions. The rifle’s first assignment will be for elk and black bear.

I was invited join a co-worker on a hunt this year. We will be hunting public land on the edge of Diamond Peak Wilderness in the Willamette National Forest near Oakridge, OR.

I can tell you from experience the 225 gr Partition works very well for moose and black bear, it would be one of the best choices for elk too. My new Redding dies have produced some great ammo for me, RCBS is good too. Along with the powders mentioned if you have some AA 2015, 53 gr of that powder got speeds around 2700 fps +/- with several different 225 gr bullets and excellent accuracy.

 

[SJB358]

They wouldn't be suggestions.....if I were a Marine!

HA! I say it all in fun. I love the 35 Whelen for what it is, it shoots pretty heavy bullets at a good enough clip, that most of us wouldn't need for too much more. Not saying it is a perfect antelope rifle, but I bet most wouldn't have too many issues hunting them little guys with one!

It does shine on the heavier game and if given a proper zero and a CDS like scope on top, further shots than ever possible die to rangefinders make it a very viable option. It'll carry some mass to the target and it doesn't need to open a whole lot to make a good wound channel either. Plus, as far as my line up of cartridges, it is probably about the most efficient one in the bunch, per grain of powder burned.

Plus, most of the Whelen's I have seen around here and on other boards, they seem to be very accurate. At least minute of elk/deer accurate for a long way down range. The first time I set up the Whelen at 600 yards, I thought Brian was going to laugh me off the range, but with the proper dope on the gun, it did really well, just as easy to hit with that, than it was with my 264 or 270WSM.. It required some more clicks, but it got there just fine.. Plus, you knew when it hit steel!

 

[alaska100]

Scotty

I was able to talk with him last night for a few minutes and found that

1, When he first bought his 35 whelen it never really was able to take the place of his 375 H & H, as he was still able to get more bang for his buck with the old H & H

2. so he had another 35 Whelen made only it was AI d and it brought it closer to the H & H, and also the 338 WM

3. That is when he bought the 340 WBY and found it to be even better than the AI d version of the 35 and has found it to give him the best "over all" results with the least effort --especially if distance is a factor in the hunt. He said it was harder to give up using his H & H than the Whelen, in favor of the 340

4. you will love this one however Scotty, One of his favorites is still the 45/70, but only gets used at the coast

It just dawned on me I should have pm d you this info but I am too lazy and busy to change it now.

 

[SJB358]

That is pretty good stuff Sean. I imagine your Uncle has had alot of time in the field with them all.

What does he run out of his 45-70 for bullets? I was just looking today at Northforks, they have a 300 grain FN made for the 45-70, I am thinking it could be a good replacement till Nosler gets them back in our grubby little hands!

 

[alaska100]

That is pretty good stuff Sean. I imagine your Uncle has had alot of time in the field with them all.

What does he run out of his 45-70 for bullets? I was just looking today at Northforks, they have a 300 grain FN made for the 45-70, I am thinking it could be a good replacement till Nosler gets them back in our grubby little hands!

First--apologies to Geo, we got a tad off topic, but will return with my last sentence

Scotty when he was loading for our son and his 45/70, I found out he has used North Fork, Pile Driver, Buffalo Bore, Hammerhead, Swift and GS Custom and I was told they all work well. His personal favorite is Swift and North Fork as they give him more overall flexibility in the mountains, but if it is just coastal brownies he says the Pile Driver, Buffalo Bills and Hammerheads are true hammers.

He loaded Swift A Frames for our son however as he felt they would serve him better, since he is inland and not only are the bears smaller but he will be looking for a variety of big game.

He ask me to tell you that he got a nice brownie with a 35 Whelen using a 225 bonded core North fork a few years back.

 

[sask boy]

geo, welcome to the 35 Whelen club the hawkeye is a great rifle :wink:. Now I will be working on you to start shooting left handed :mrgreen:
You will find it is a great caliber, I am just about ready for load development but I am still having a tough time making time with my contract ending in 6 weeks and there is still to much work.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Tnhunter]

I'd simply say this.... I've owned a .338/06 and it's a great round; very close to .35 Whelen specs. But I've yet to find from numbers I've seen where it's any better at any weight bullet of 180gr & above to make make me choose it over the Whelen. Perhaps the .338 fed might be what you want, if the Whelen is too close to the 9.3x74R (which I also own). The .35W 225s at a brisk pace are something that the 9.3 simply cannot match (IMHO) tho.....[/quote]


I'm looking at diameter between .30 and 36. Now why would the .338 Fed have anything over the .338-06?,,,As for the difference between the .338-06 and Whelen, arguements could be made for both, however, if I was shooting the .35 Whelen (which I mentioned I wouldn't mind having also), it would be loaded with 250's, 225's in the .338. Although, I did neglect to mention, if I did do the .338-06, it would be AI'd also.
Other than that, I also might disagree on the 9.3 part.
What are you shooting the 74 out of?
FWIW, I'm shooting out of 26" Douglas throated a bit longer than book's suggested OAL. With the 286 gr. PT's at 3.865" OAL, and the older 250 BT's at 3.910" AOL in an Encore, giving me 2500 and 2600 fps respectively using VV-N165 and H-4831, and good brass life. I have some 250 AB's here I intend to give a try with RL-22,,,,they just might beat the prior load?????

Not trying to stray from the OP,,,sorry, and certainly not trying to detract from the Whelen [/quote]

I'd never call the .338F superior to the .338/06, I simply was saying that it would still make an excellent round between the .308 and .366 calibers. All comparisons I've seen between a Whelen and a standard (not AI) 338/06, show the Whelen to be a tad better at all typical hunting ranges and with bullets from 180-250gr. Hence, my personal opinion and reason why I still have a couple Whelens, but no longer own the .338/06 I had. My 9.3x74R is housed in a Verney-Carron Sagittaire which has 22" barrels. It will never be a velocity champ, but will be a fine stopper and medium range rifle. I had owned a CZ 9.3x62, but it was sacrificed in order for me to be able to get the V-C. I would, however revisit a 9.3x62, however, at some point in an all-weather type rifle. Lots of fine mediums out there, perhaps none is perfect for all applications but all have their strong points. :mrgreen:

 

[SJB358]

That is pretty good stuff Sean. I imagine your Uncle has had alot of time in the field with them all.

What does he run out of his 45-70 for bullets? I was just looking today at Northforks, they have a 300 grain FN made for the 45-70, I am thinking it could be a good replacement till Nosler gets them back in our grubby little hands!

First--apologies to Geo, we got a tad off topic, but will return with my last sentence

Scotty when he was loading for our son and his 45/70, I found out he has used North Fork, Pile Driver, Buffalo Bore, Hammerhead, Swift and GS Custom and I was told they all work well. His personal favorite is Swift and North Fork as they give him more overall flexibility in the mountains, but if it is just coastal brownies he says the Pile Driver, Buffalo Bills and Hammerheads are true hammers.

He loaded Swift A Frames for our son however as he felt they would serve him better, since he is inland and not only are the bears smaller but he will be looking for a variety of big game.

He ask me to tell you that he got a nice brownie with a 35 Whelen using a 225 bonded core North fork a few years back.

Great update on the 45-70 Sean. I looked over the Northforks and have a box of their 350's sitting on my bench and let me tell you guys, they are nice. I haven't loaded a single one of them yet, as I am scared I will like them too much. This year might be the year though. I need to make up a load for hunting season this Fall, so I just might give the North Fork a shot. I do hope they shoot well, they certainly look and cost the part!

I wouldn't have many reservations about hunting big bears with the Whelen at all. Pretty sure a 250 PT would get it done. Tell your Uncle I said thank you for the info.

 

[onesonek]

I'd simply say this.... I've owned a .338/06 and it's a great round; very close to .35 Whelen specs. But I've yet to find from numbers I've seen where it's any better at any weight bullet of 180gr & above to make make me choose it over the Whelen. Perhaps the .338 fed might be what you want, if the Whelen is too close to the 9.3x74R (which I also own). The .35W 225s at a brisk pace are something that the 9.3 simply cannot match (IMHO) tho.....

I'm looking at diameter between .30 and 36. Now why would the .338 Fed have anything over the .338-06?,,,As for the difference between the .338-06 and Whelen, arguements could be made for both, however, if I was shooting the .35 Whelen (which I mentioned I wouldn't mind having also), it would be loaded with 250's, 225's in the .338. Although, I did neglect to mention, if I did do the .338-06, it would be AI'd also.
Other than that, I also might disagree on the 9.3 part.
What are you shooting the 74 out of?
FWIW, I'm shooting out of 26" Douglas throated a bit longer than book's suggested OAL. With the 286 gr. PT's at 3.865" OAL, and the older 250 BT's at 3.910" AOL in an Encore, giving me 2500 and 2600 fps respectively using VV-N165 and H-4831, and good brass life. I have some 250 AB's here I intend to give a try with RL-22,,,,they just might beat the prior load?????

Not trying to stray from the OP,,,sorry, and certainly not trying to detract from the Whelen [/quote]

I'd never call the .338F superior to the .338/06, I simply was saying that it would still make an excellent round between the .308 and .366 calibers. All comparisons I've seen between a Whelen and a standard (not AI) 338/06, show the Whelen to be a tad better at all typical hunting ranges and with bullets from 180-250gr. Hence, my personal opinion and reason why I still have a couple Whelens, but no longer own the .338/06 I had. My 9.3x74R is housed in a Verney-Carron Sagittaire which has 22" barrels. It will never be a velocity champ, but will be a fine stopper and medium range rifle. I had owned a CZ 9.3x62, but it was sacrificed in order for me to be able to get the V-C. I would, however revisit a 9.3x62, however, at some point in an all-weather type rifle. Lots of fine mediums out there, perhaps none is perfect for all applications but all have their strong points. :mrgreen:[/quote]


"All comparisons I've seen between a Whelen and a standard (not AI) 338/06, show the Whelen to be a tad better at all typical hunting ranges and with bullets from 180-250gr."

That is debatable, as it's not always so according to the ballistic program I ran with the standard .338-06. Run the numbers on the .338-06/225 gr. PT against the .35W/250 gr. PT (like design and SD) at max book velocities and see. I even gave the .35/250 an extra 50 fps. And I will take the standard .338-06 with the 225 gr. AB against anything in the Whelen.
That's not saying the .35 Whelen is bad in any way however.

Honestly, the animal isn't going to know any diffierence with either most likely, even though the frontal area favors the .35W, (which I do like). However, I would still use the 250 in the .35W, but that's where the 9.3 /250 is already there and in my case, slightly better. Otherwise the comparision between my 9.3x74R /250 and .35W/225, is like comparing both the .280 Rem 160 gr and .270 Win. 150 gr,,,, just not much difference there. If I already didn't have the 9.3, it would be a coin flip for me between the .35 , and .338. I just dont want two frontal diameters so close in this thought criteria, as the reason for the .338. And while not quite wanting the .338 WM, I am leaning the AI version. Point is, to be fair in comparing calibers, SD and of same design is the only fair way, not like bullet weights.

But I also agree, the .338 Fed is a good round and has purpose,,,, just not for me. Sorry I misunderstood your suggesting it. I figured now, it is do to the normal spec's and data of the 9.3x74R,,,,which mine is outside of. I could have presented that fact first, and saved some discussion in that regard.
Oh,,,and very nice on the V-C 9.3x74R rifle btw.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I am with you Dave, the only way that you can compare a .338 to a .358 is sectional density to sectional density. Otherwise it is apples to bananas because there is .020 inches difference in bullet diameter. I own a .338 Federal which I like but for serious mountain elk hunting, I would take a.338-06 or a Whelen .358 any day, except maybe here in the jungle of Western Washington where shots are sometimes in feet not yards.

 

[Tnhunter]

Quote:"Point is, to be fair in comparing calibers, SD and of same design is the only fair way, not like bullet weights. "

I've looked at your answer for about 3 days now and finally decided that I should, indeed, answer to it. If someone wants to stand behind a ballistics calculator and quote info from what they have input (endless combos) well I reckon that's fine with me. But, to be honest, the ONLY info I have ever used is printed info to make a valid comparison between two rounds and the info I have studied that made my mind up between the .338/06 and .35 Whelen came from NOSLER'S custom ammo info which is depicted in the supplied link.

If I am shooting bigger game than deer with a medium, then I also think about both bullet diameter and bullet weight, for sure. But for someone to use the idea that SD compared between two close calibers, being better in the smaller one, for bigger game, when the numbers show better performance from a bigger diameter bullet having BOTH more speed and FPE, I have a problem, sorry. For the record, there is a 200 FPS and 500+ FPE difference between the 225gr NP in the .338/06 and the .35 Whelen at the muzzle, which, in fact, favors the .35 Whelen.

Use your ballistics calculator all you want, after all they are useful for many uses. But please do not try and tell someone familiar with both calibers, that the one that shows less velocity and energy (along with worse trajectory numbers) at any hunting range to 400 yards is actually superior; that is, simply, completely lost on me. Have a look yourself. After all these are Nosler's numbers. It might even interest you (and others?) to check the numbers for both the .35 Whelen with 225gr Nosler Partitions and the .338WM with the same weight & type bullet. I already know which I would choose for any large animal at any range up to 250 yards.

Just my opinion, of course.

http://www.nosler.com/Ammunition/Custom-Ammunition.aspx

 

[Oldtrader3]

Nobody said that anything is superior to anything else. If you do not understand the relationship between ballistic coefficient, and sectional density as important constants for ballistic comparison between calibers, downrange velocity and penetration don't blame us! You seem to be somewhat confused about any ballistics relationships except ammo tables in catalogs, based on your responses. Handloading and using other design and ballistic coefficient bullets in all of these calibers makes your point moot!

All of these calibers work and fill an important niche in the scheme of things and all will kill appropiate game for their users but you need to get beyond factory ballistic numbers to understand that and start looking into exterior ballistics with bullet shapes and sectional density before it will make sense.

 

[BK]

I used to worry about things like SD, but anymore, with the quality of bullets that I typically use, I'm not really that sure that my wasted mental energy is useful. With bullets like the .243 90 AccuBond (SD .218), .284 Ballistic Tip and TSX (SD .213), .308 125 BT or TSX (SD .188 (!?!?!)) able to shoot through just about any deer, I don't think I need to find bullets with an SD of .250 like I used to.

Elk, of course, are another matter.

 

[Oldtrader3]

But you are still using the SD as a base limit for hunting because your selections are still based on that. I have always used .225 or so as SD for deer and .250 or so for elk. For day to day shooting and hunting, I do not consider this much anymore because I made these decisions years ago and unconsciously follow the rules on this for caliber selection and handloading.

 

[SJB358]

It is hard to argue too much between the 338-06 and 35 Whelen. Granted, the BC and SD numbers are similar enough between the two cartridges. Realistically, the Whelen will run a 250 PT to just about the same speed as a 338-06 will push a 225 PT, loaded to the same pressure in equal barrel lengths. Neither one of them would be a truly long range rifle. If anything, in current load manuals, the Whelen is behind the 338-06 due to be loaded to 58,000PSI, where as the 338-06 standardized by A-Square, is run at 65000PSI.. Quite a difference in loads. BUT, run them both to the same pressures and the Whelen pulls ahead.. I like them both and one of my best mates here, 257 Ackley gets excellent speed out of his 338-06 with 210's running at around 2750, whereas I do about the same with 225's out of my Whelen. I would be hard pressed to think either would do any better on game. Again, the SD numbers are still a relevant number to me, as is BC, but for the most part, hits out to 400, like Ed mentioned, will still require some holdover.

All in all, it is a Ford vs Dodge.. Both will do about the same amount of work. I wouldn't choose one over the other.. Matter of fact, bullet weights are very similar from 160-300 (338) and 180-310 (358)... I say get one of each and then make your choice!

 

[SJB358]

But you are still using the SD as a base limit for hunting because your selections are still based on that. I have always used .225 or so as SD for deer and .250 or so for elk. For day to day shooting and hunting, I do not consider this much anymore because I made these decisions years ago and unconsciously follow the rules on this for caliber selection and handloading.

I think I bend the rules, depending on bullets though Charlie. Look at the .458 300 grain PT for the 45-70, it has very low SD. BUT, that bullet is built like an Abrams and penetrates way beyond its numbers show. I would be the 200 AB in the 35 Whelen would be another like this. With Nosler's and other current ability to keep bullets fairly high in weight, the SD is still a useful number, but not quite as important to me as it probably was 50 years ago. I think picking bullets by SD is never a bad choice, but it certainly doesn't impact it's ability like it once did. I will throw Mike under the bus, he runs a 270WSM with a 130 ET and SLAY elk and moose with it (sorry Mike)...

Our bullets available today really give us a different perspective..

 

[DrMike]

I forgive you, Scotty. :mrgreen: