Lesson Learned. Gun go boom!

[FOTIS]

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve ... 029301/p/1

 

[bullet]

To use blue dot is absolutely insane in a 257Wby mag in any rifle.

Been a Mark V instead of a Vanguard the outcome would have been different, the Mark V can take 250,000 pounds per square inch and the Vanguard at best can take 90,000 to 100,000 pounds per square inch.

In Sweden they did a test and tried to blow up rifles and did a bunch of makes including the Vanguard and were ask why not try the Mark V, and they said to get to the pressures to do that would be to dangerous and not worth the effort.

 

[FOTIS]

I have used it and unique for many years. From the Hornet to the 378 bee to the 458 Lott. Nice reduced loads...BUT only when you pay attention to detail.

Let's say you want to plink with your 257 WBY but not burn out the barrel. Then you do this.

Cartridge : .257 Weath. Mag
Bullet : .257, 60, Hornady FP 2510
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.000 inch or 76.20 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 27 13.50 2318 716 16487 3410 100.0 1.914
-09.0 28 13.65 2334 726 16801 3440 100.0 1.866
-08.0 28 13.80 2349 735 17106 3471 100.0 1.826
-07.0 28 13.95 2364 745 17407 3502 100.0 1.791
-06.0 28 14.10 2379 754 17706 3533 100.0 1.761
-05.0 29 14.25 2393 763 18002 3564 100.0 1.733
-04.0 29 14.40 2407 772 18298 3595 100.0 1.708
-03.0 29 14.55 2421 781 18593 3626 100.0 1.686
-02.0 30 14.70 2435 790 18888 3657 100.0 1.664
-01.0 30 14.85 2449 799 19183 3688 100.0 1.644
+00.0 30 15.00 2462 808 19479 3719 100.0 1.625
+01.0 31 15.15 2476 817 19774 3750 100.0 1.607
+02.0 31 15.30 2489 825 20070 3781 100.0 1.591
+03.0 31 15.45 2502 834 20367 3812 100.0 1.574
+04.0 32 15.60 2515 843 20665 3843 100.0 1.559
+05.0 32 15.75 2528 851 20963 3874 100.0 1.544

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 30 15.00 2482 821 20696 3696 100.0 1.577
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 30 15.00 2435 790 18050 3751 100.0 1.687


Makes a great 25-20 huh?


Cartridge : .257 Weath. Mag
Bullet : .257, 60, Hornady FP 2510
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.000 inch or 76.20 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 29 18.00 2387 759 14132 4459 100.0 1.769
-09.0 29 18.20 2406 771 14401 4495 100.0 1.751
-08.0 29 18.40 2424 783 14672 4532 100.0 1.733
-07.0 30 18.60 2442 795 14945 4568 100.0 1.717
-06.0 30 18.80 2460 806 15221 4604 100.0 1.700
-05.0 30 19.00 2478 818 15498 4640 100.0 1.684
-04.0 31 19.20 2496 830 15778 4677 100.0 1.669
-03.0 31 19.40 2513 841 16060 4713 100.0 1.654
-02.0 31 19.60 2530 853 16344 4749 100.0 1.639
-01.0 32 19.80 2547 864 16631 4785 100.0 1.625
+00.0 32 20.00 2564 876 16919 4821 100.0 1.612
+01.0 32 20.20 2581 887 17210 4857 100.0 1.598
+02.0 33 20.40 2597 899 17503 4892 100.0 1.585
+03.0 33 20.60 2614 910 17799 4928 100.0 1.572
+04.0 33 20.80 2630 921 18096 4964 100.0 1.560
+05.0 34 21.00 2646 933 18396 4999 100.0 1.548

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 32 20.00 2626 919 18655 4745 100.0 1.549
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 32 20.00 2473 815 15082 4928 100.0 1.691


Now even if you double charge...........with blue dot

Cartridge : .257 Weath. Mag
Bullet : .257, 60, Hornady FP 2510
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.000 inch or 76.20 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch or 660.4 mm
Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.0 58 36.00 3593 1720 47620 7440 100.0 1.022
-09.0 58 36.40 3614 1740 48592 7499 100.0 1.013
-08.0 59 36.80 3634 1760 49574 7557 100.0 1.004
-07.0 60 37.20 3655 1780 50568 7615 100.0 0.995
-06.0 60 37.60 3675 1799 51573 7673 100.0 0.986
-05.0 61 38.00 3695 1819 52588 7731 100.0 0.978
-04.0 61 38.40 3715 1839 53615 7788 100.0 0.969
-03.0 62 38.80 3735 1859 54653 7845 100.0 0.961 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 63 39.20 3755 1879 55702 7901 100.0 0.953 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 63 39.60 3775 1898 56762 7957 100.0 0.945 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 64 40.00 3794 1918 57835 8013 100.0 0.937 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 65 40.40 3814 1938 58919 8069 100.0 0.930 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 65 40.80 3833 1957 60014 8124 100.0 0.922 ! Near Maximum !
+03.0 66 41.20 3852 1977 61121 8179 100.0 0.915 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 67 41.60 3871 1997 62241 8234 100.0 0.908 ! Near Maximum !
+05.0 67 42.00 3890 2016 63372 8288 100.0 0.901 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 64 40.00 3822 1946 61997 7962 100.0 0.909 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 64 40.00 3756 1879 53047 8084 100.0 0.975

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Double charge?
Looks like a tripple or quadruple charge to me!

 

[JD338]

Wow, very lucky shooter! Glad he was not seriously injured.

I personally don't understand why someone wants to run reduces loads in a bigger caliber. I think its better to get a smaller caliber to get where you want to be.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Double charge?
Looks like a tripple or quadruple charge to me!

attention to detail!!!!!

 

[Richracer1]

I agree with JD338. I've never understood the point of buying rifle caliber "A" and shoot reduced loads from it. I kind of put this in the category of Remington's Power Level ammo. Why buy a 300RUM and shoot 30-06 type loads from it to get away from the recoil, just buy a 30-06, it's cheaper as well.
Maybe I'm still new to the loading/shooting sport, but that's my opinion.

 

[bullet]

I agree with JD338. I've never understood the point of buying rifle caliber "A" and shoot reduced loads from it. I kind of put this in the category of Remington's Power Level ammo. Why buy a 300RUM and shoot 30-06 type loads from it to get away from the recoil, just buy a 30-06, it's cheaper as well.
Maybe I'm still new to the loading/shooting sport, but that's my opinion.

+1 my opinion also, very well said, my sentiments completely.

 

[FOTIS]

Well the thing is this. You have a 458 Lott and you do not feel like getting rocked with a 500 gr at 2300 fps all the time. It is fun but not 50-60 off the bench. When I had my Lott I loaded it with 350 gr Lasercast bullets and 15 grain of Unique. One can shoot 100 rounds at a sitting, easy !

Lobbing those rounds at 200 yard targets was fun!


Cartridge : .458 Lott
Bullet : .458, 350 grain , CAST
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.600 inch or 91.44 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch or 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms


24 15.00 1218 1152 11258 1413 100.0 2.504

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

POP, Why not load the Lott with wc860 or wc872?
It would lob the bullets out nice and slow, and you would never have to worry about overcharging and blowing up your gun?

 

[JD338]

POP, Why not load the Lott with wc860 or wc872?
It would lob the bullets out nice and slow, and you would never have to worry about overcharging and blowing up your gun?

Exactly!
Nothing wrong with shooting reduced loads, but why not do it with slooooow powder instead of the squib loads with pistol powders.

I had considered loading my 22-250 with Blue Dot for reduced noise coyote hunting. I re thought about it and decided to just keep doing what I have been doing, no one has ever complained about the noise.

Pop, I hear ya about Lott recoil. I think EXTREAM CAUTION must be exercised when loading with pistol powders. Myself, I would go with published reduced loads. Using hard cast bullets would be fun.

JD338

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I've shot reduced load in my 6.5 sweed, 270 winchester, and 338 win.
The load is a case full of WC860, and stick a bullet in it, any bullet.
Most medium size cases will shoot around 2200-2400 fps, the 338 was around 2500 fps. Didn't matter if it was a 200, 225, or 250gr bullet in the 338. they all chronied around 2500.

These loads are easy on the shoulder, and group GREAT. Of course they shoot about 2-3 feet low at 100 yds compared to my normal loads.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Whew! That was scarey :shock:
The possibility to double load with slow rifle powders is less but handguns are a different story. I've been loading for almost 50 years now and thought I'd gotten my routine down pretty good. I fired a reduced load thrue my 257Wby last year. It was a primer powered 110gr. AccuBond and it stuck in the rifling. I agree with the initial post that being distracted is easy enough and like Pop said a lack of "attention to detail" is something we can all fall prey to.
Good Hunting
Greg

 

[Powerstroke]

+1, +2 & +3 with JD.....
Also stated he was using 117grainers.... again, why not lighter bullets too?

Somewhat like POP said to....

" Previous Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance " ??

 

[Guy Miner]

The hottest, most powerful .257 Wby mag load in the world still produces very mild recoil. No need to download. It's a high performance thoroughbred, best treated that way.

 

[Desert Fox]

People never ceased to amazed me. Why would anyone buy a 257 Weatherby rifle and shoot it with reduce load. It's like buying a V-12 Ferrari and shutdown 6 of the cylinder. i don't understand the concept behind it. I have no sympathy with this people. Not only that they're endangering themselve. They're endangering others also.

 

[bullet]

People never ceased to amazed me. Why would anyone buy a 257 Weatherby rifle and shoot it with reduce load. It's like buying a V-12 Ferrari and shutdown 6 of the cylinder. i don't understand the concept behind it. I have no sympathy with this people. Not only that they're endangering themselve. They're endangering others also.

Yes!!!! I do not understand them either. It is just lunacy, use a lesser cartridge if you want to plink at the range but don't ask a Thoroughbred to walk out of the gate when it is made to bolt out in front and run.

 

[Guest]

I saw this on another forum, and posted about it there. There's something fishy about the result of that shot. How is the receiver blown apart, the bolt head partially de-rimmed, and yet the barrel and threads are immaculate to the point of being re-usable (except for some potential metal fatigue or other internal flaws)? Seems to me that to blow the receiver apart so violently without damaging the barrel, something else was in play here. I'm not a professional gunsmith or forensics expert, but when I look at that, I wonder about it. I'd like to see better pics of the barrel shank and thread area. To blow the receiver in the manner it did would require the barrel to at least split in the thread area, wouldn't it? It just doens't add up.

 

[FOTIS]

I guess he was trying to prevent barrel wear.

BTW one of the reasons I love my Lyman turret press. Mount a powder measure on it, charge///turn////seat////done.

:wink:

 

[cold_hunter]

wow ya i asked you guys for some help on reduced loads on a 300 RUM but never would i thought to use a pistol powder. holy wow my x wife used to do that to me all the time when i was loading come in and want me to go to the store or start a fight with me. now she says to me or used to i left you for a reason and finaly i said ya to do me a favor she never said that again haha