Leupold VX6 vs. duralyt vs. conquest HD

I thought about it and after all this conversation even though I am comparing the Zeiss with some others, I have decided I will not drop the bucks required for the Zeiss or for either of the other two scopes being considered. I will keep killing game on short and long shots as well as in low light with what I have and since I kill a lot of game each year, I do not find my self under scoped at all. Use to think I had to have what everyone was saying was the best, but that was not true either. Point in case, I worked with a game warden north of Vicksburg some years back shooting coyotes at night in bean fields that were next to some pasture land for cattle and sheep and the coyotes were killing the new borns. I used at that time a 30-06 shooting a 165gr Sierra with a 2.5-8x36mm VXIII and killed 52 coyote in 9 months and the shortest shot was 125yds and the longest was 426yds all at night with just a spot light covered with a red lens cover. I am not fooled anymore by the slight difference that most will have problems telling there is really a difference at all.

Had two guys come to the range while we were shooting the rifles with the scopes I was comparing and we decided to tie a cloth around each scope so the guys could not see the make and be influenced by the name nor did we tell them the cost. Neither ware glasses and have good eyes. Guess what, they could not tell the difference and in one case they both thought a different scope look better to view through and tried again and changed their minds. On top of that one of them said, "these are not any better to look through than my scope". I asked, "what scope is that" and he said, "my Zeiss Conquest." I actually wanted to start laughing, but held my response. Nope, I will let all the other folks who want to convince themselves that extremely high dollar scopes are really worth the money and make such a great difference in the field that one would be a fool not to purchase them. I don't think they are worth how much more you have to pay for them. Of course some will argue against my comments to defend their perception of things and that is fine with me. I know what I have done in the field on difficult shots and in difficult conditions and have done so with much lesser scopes. As I have said before, I have never lost game due to the scope I was using at the time. Made a 618yd shot on a coues deer just after dawn (which is just after first light appears) with a Leupold fixed 6x42mm on a 300Wby and a 165gr AccuBond. One shot, one kill and most would argue I was under scoped. Sure glad I did not believe I was or I would not have taken the shot. Anyway, decided not to spring for the Zeiss.
 
Bullet,

That's a decision that all of us have to wrestle with. The first job of a rife scope is to be a reliable gun sight. After that everything optically speaking comes in degrees of judgement. My journey in optics started after I bought my first pair of Binos. At the time they cost $120.00 bucks and I was so proud until someone told me to look through a pair of Zeiss Victories. Been screwed ever since. :lol:

After buying some victories of my own I started seeing much more game. Especially in the very first or last minutes of legal shooting times. Once after sunset I found a buck bedded in some dead timber with those Zeiss binos. Raised my rifle with my best scope at that time (nikon monarch) and could not find the buck. Lowered the rifle and raised the binos again and there he was bigger than Helga's broadside. Did this a couple of times and never found that buck in my monarch. Over the years I have had a few issues with lessor scopes in low light and realized that there would be a few times when I wanted my scope to be on par with my binos. One time was a deer standing in dead grass or a dead bush between me and another buck, each instance the scope not able to make the animal stand out enough to be seen. Not very many times to be honest but more than once. In truth a $400.00 scope will serve you about 97% of the time. Maybe 99%.... It's that last 3% to 1% that drives me nuts.

I've a rifle project that is nearing completion and it will deserve a quality scope that I will be happy with for the duration of my hunting time. That and I want my boys to have some good equipment when the old man is gone. I could always put a Victory or Z6 atop and never want for anything but the game for me is to get 98% of that quality for 1/2 the price. That is what seals the deal for me.

Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate yours and everyone's' input. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have all those scopes lined up with a Victory as the one to compare to and see what there is to see.

chs
 
Good luck on your choice, I know you will pick what you like and want, that is what I would do. :)
 
Seems like it would be real hard to beat a Leica for the money Chuck. All the glass of the Swaros and suly around 2/3's the price of a Z6. I haven't heard a single complaint about them and the couple I've eyeballed have been awesome.
 
I can tell the difference between a Conquest, a Victory Diavari and a Swarovski Z3. However it is only those times that Charles mentioned when the chips are down at last light and you need a scope to pickup detail with the Twilight Factor that you can not see with the naked eye. I lost a nice (4) point Mule deer, of about 30 inch spread, because I could not see him with the Nikon Monarch scope which at that time I had on my 7mm Mag rifle, at dusk, in the shade of trees.

Let me know what you eyes see in these scopes tomorrow, Charles and we will compare notes. My Zeiss Diavari is 20 years old and my Swarovski 10 years old. My (2) Conquests are much newer. The 3.5-10x44 Conquest is brand new and about two months old. Keep me posted.
 
Made a trip over to SWFA today and had them stack up a Victory Diavari 2.5-10x50 (not the new victory HT or FL), Duralyt 3-12x50 and a VX6 3-18x50. No conquest because the poor guy behind the counter was scurrying around locating demos and I'm pretty familiar with a conquests. Unfortunately I had to confine myself in a small reception area at the front door and look out through a window for judging the scopes. Not much to go on for an comparison and to make matters worse it was a bright day. The 'evaluation' of these scopes was very limited because I was not able to view in low light and not able to view any charts or make the scopes stationary.

That said I was able to make a few observations. One the duralty is not on par with the Victory Diavari (and hence called victory) Before I make it sound like it was junk (which it is not by any stretch) it does have some limitations. One is that it is a compact scope which is not a bad thing but, being compact they did make some compromises. For one it does not have the adjustments that other scopes have. Maybe an issue or not depending on how hard to zero the scope and then have room for dialing later. When you add what Zeiss said about it being "keyed" to low light hunting that makes sense about the limited adjustments which might be the result of a large erector lens. Maybe Zeiss felt it necessary to keep the erector lens as large as possible? Not sure this is a real problem but it is something that can be an issue. The victory and the VX6 have ample room for adjustment.

The field of view on the duralty is not on par with the victory either. The victory has much more and the VX6 was sticking pretty darn close to the victory in that regard. It took me several looks to determine that which one had more and that difference is marginal at best. Close enough that one might not notice a difference so we could really call the victory and the VX6 about equal with the duralyt pretty far behind.

One thing that really stepped out and was a clear "compromise" was some distortion in the image around the edges in the duralyt while on low power, 3-5x range As the magnification was increased this decreased until not noticable. On 10x it was dangerously close to the victory in clearness. Yes, this was a bright clear day but being so close to a victory is no small feat. Now, on low power the distortion was annoying yet the center was sharp as all get out and for shooting it would not be an issue but it is evident. The victory was razor sharp throughout and the VX6 was consistent from edge to edge from 3 through 18x.

For checking resolution I used a brick wall on an adjacent building but it was really too close (about 40 yards) so I looked at some trees about 150 yards away. However, the wind was blowing hard enough to keep the limbs swaying so again, no real conclusion was there. I did find a sign to read at some distance and started using that.

The victory was the sharpest of all three. Even in bright sun it was able to make a small difference. The VX6 and duralyt were about even with the duralyt edging the 6 until the duralyt was on 8-10x then it might have equaled the victory. Again, not using charts this test is hardly a standard and in fairness to the duralyt it was designed for low light. Without those conditions it was not able to show it's strengths. While th duralyt came close and at times appeared to equal the victory the VX6 was not quite as sharp.

Both the victory and the vx6 had a very flat clear image. I went through the magnification ranges of all scopes and both the victory and the VX6 were supurb while the duralyt performed better on 7x and above. On 10x it was very hard to see any difference between the diavari and duralyt. The VX6 was just a hair behind.

Without using any charts or being able to look at a target I was not able to tell how forgiving the scopes were and without any shade or darkness this was no real evaluation but I walked away from this with more respect for the Leupold. It showed no weakness and was very clear and sharp. Maybe not a top tier scope like the Z6 or Victory Ht but at it's price point a pretty nice scope and only a notch lower than the big boys. It would have been nice to do some low light comparisons but it was not possible. I do own a vx7 and it is optically right there with the swarovski and handles itself very well in low light and will stick with a Swarovski well past legal shooting times so "if" the vx6 is the equal of the 7 in that regard then that would alleviate most of my concerns.

I would say that I suspect that the duralyt would hold it's own in low light especially while using high magnification. However, without really using one after sunset I can only "speculate" about that. It was designed to be an entry level scope for the european hunter so some compromises are going to be there in that price range.

I've a friend who owns 2 VX6's along with some conquests, Swarovski's and other scopes. I called him today and he is going to do a low light test tonight with the 6 compared to the 4-16x50 swarovski and a 1" conquest. It won't be a fair fight using a 2-12x42 against the swarovski but he can adjust the magnification range to get as close as possible.
 
Thanks for the great information Charles. You got a lot out information of not much to work with. We expected the Victory to win so mental balance stays on track with no heavy rethinking of deeply buried optical knowledge required.

The only real comments that I have about all of this is pertinent to the Duralyte. I have seen the fringe distortion in other scopes at low magnification. Some of the cheaper Vortex scopes have it, as do many Chinese made scopes. It is caused by distortion in the lens edge grind diopter curvature and being out of specification and tolerance. It disappears by the time you hit 8X because it is on the edge of the lens only. The center portion of the lens, which is used exclusively at higher magnification, is in spec and the curvature has no distortion so you get much better contrast and clarity of image. It is much easier to hold curvature and diopter tolerances on the thicker center portion of the lens.

Normally lens are ground on a vacuum head which will hold several lens of the same diameter and diopter curve. The twirling grinder head has the ability to develop some vacuum tension on the edge of the lenses if they are ground at too high a polishing rotational speed. This will lift the edges and grind them slightly out of spec, hence the distortion. They need to run the grinding and polishing spindles at a slower rotational speed and do it right! Zeiss makes both the Duralyte and the Victory so obviously they know how to do it right. Shape up Zeiss, this Duralyte is not that cheap a scope and it is not Chinese made!
 
Good info Charlie,

I also got a reply from Leupold regarding the Vx6 Vs. the VX7 and that question was designed to obtain a one word answer. Instead that answer was over 3 paragraphs so that answers the fish or fowl question or better stated foul.

On it's own the VX6 is great scope for it's price point. About the equivalent of a Conquest with a 30 mm lens assembly and 6x magnification. A 3-18x50 for $1200.00 ain't bad.

My issue is when they tell me on the phone or in an email that the 6 is "better" than the 7. Better FOV yes! but not quite what the 7 was glass wise. Maybe not in low light resolution either.

It always made me wonder why a better scope would cost 2/3 as much.

Anyway, now that it has been established the "6" is like a better version of the conquest but not a swarovski or victory. At 1/2 the price we can now start to place it in proper context.
 
The Leupold VX6 is a fine scope for the money spent, really hard to beat for the value. I am looking again and looking at the VX6, spent time with one today, there is a lot to like.
 
It was a marketing decision to follow the VX7 with the VX6. This probably was not a good decision because now the VX6 will always be compared to the VX7 which is a Marketing goof! On it's own the VX6 is a very optically capable scope that is worth the price asked. Leupold need not defend it. Maybe the should have kept the VX7 in the product line as well?

The new VX-3's are much more capable as well. I was out at the range with my 1.5-5x20 VX-3 today on my 9.3x74R Ruger No. 1. It handles the recoil and will run the box just fine with adjustment accuracy being very capable.
 
Oldtrader3":imrwz42t said:
It was a marketing decision to follow the VX7 with the VX6. This probably was not a good decision because now the VX6 will always be compared to the VX7 which is a Marketing goof! On it's own the VX6 is a very optically capable scope that is worth the price asked. Leupold need not defend it. Maybe the should have kept the VX7 in the product line as well?

The new VX-3's are much more capable as well. I was out at the range with my 1.5-5x20 VX-3 today on my 9.3x74R Ruger No. 1. It handles the recoil and will run the box just fine with adjustment accuracy being very capable.
Click to expand...

Very good point about the VX6 and Leupold certainly does not have to defend it as you said, I am really getting an itch to get one. Also, your comments on the VX-3's hit the nail on the head. Plus you add the Leupold service and warranty and both are good scopes for the money.

On a different subject I sent yesterday a Weaver K-Series 6x38mm back to Weaver for warranty work, the windage adjustment stopped working. First Weaver K-Series I have had to send back but for only 154.00 I am not surprised. My 8mm Rem Mag I had for a while put the hammer on that scope. Will see what they do with the scope. I will say though for 154.00 as long as it was working for a fixed 6x scope it was clear and worked fairly well in low light. Man I had scopes from 50 dollars the 1500.00 in my life and in most cases except for the extremely expensive scopes you get what you pay for and in a lot of cases today you get more than you pay for with scopes especially the 600.00 and down to about 200.00. Of course just and opinion of a scope and rifle junky.
 
Well guys, I have a Leica, a Zeiss Davari & a VX6 I really would not trade any of them. I really can't say one is better than the other as they are all top quality!! The ZA5 that we placed on my Son's CDL is nice but is not in the same quality as the three I have on my rifles:)! We are going to replace the ZA5 this fall with another Leupold with VX-R.

Blessings,
Dan
 
I put my ZA5 on a Savage .22 WMR. It is good enough for that. I have not tried the VX-R. But I hear they are a decent scope for the money? I am all scoped up right now, no reason to change. I have Swarovski, Zeiss Diavari, Conquest (2), Kahles (2), a Leupold VX3, a Leupold Vari XIII.
 
Charlie, we would go with the VX3 but my son has a bit of a focus problem with his right eye because of a infection that was improperly treated when first diagnosed :( . He has trouble picking up the reticle when again the hide of a animal. It is fine on a target but not on game. So I believe having a illuminated reticle will help him pick up the shot quicker especially in low light conditions.

Blessings,
dan
 
Dan, I bet a lighted reticle would help your boy. The VX-R that you had mentioned earlier may help your son to be able to see well enough to hunt and use the lighted reticle? After having cataract surgery a myself and from just general old age, I notice that my abilities to see targets is diminishing too. I surely hope that the VX-R works for your boy. I would really like to have pictures of his next game animal that he shoots with that scope.
 
Charlie he was drawn in the same zone as the farm for (cow Moose). I really don't think it will be much of a hunt as we usually have 4 or 5 Moose in one of our 1/2 section pastures :mrgreen:

Blessings,
Dan
 
Dan, that sounds as though he will have a successful hunt this year. Good moose in the freezer!
 
It's long after the conversation but I felt it proper to answer the question as to which scope I bought. Well, ordered at least and it should be here this week.

The Duralyt did not hold my interest because I can't get over a scope made by Zeiss that sucked so bad with edge distortion. Also did not like the small room for elevation/windage. Maybe not an issue at first but some day I am sure I would regret it. Also wanted 1/4" adjustments which it does not have and did not like the narrower FOV... It was not that narrow but not as good as other scopes. Remembering that a scope is foremost a gun sight it failed the test. Like Charlie said, Zeiss needs to be ashamed of the 3-12 version. Maybe they have an idiot in the marketing department like Leupold does? A

Diavari...............Love that scope. Really think highly of the 4-16x50. With a illuminated reticle it would be a great scope. Was kinda hoping for a great deal but it appears my project is ready and I really need to scope it. With all the bells and whistles that I want even a demo is reaching 2K. While that scope is worth it I can't justify that money with other options around.

Leaves the VX6. No weakness in that scope that I can find and my problem with Leupold had to be overcome. Despite my contempt for how they have done things over the last few years I have to make a practical judgment instead of an emotional one and the 6 does what I want for a decent price. Personally I think they a tad over priced but any scope that can be compared to a Swarovski or diavari for less than 1/2 the price has to be on anyone's short list.

Other attributes that went into the decision was their improved FOV, eye relief and the ease you can get behind it and acquire your target. Sharp and clear through the magnification range and 6x is a nice luxury to have. Other brands like Leica and the Swarovski Z3 were considered but I know that the 6 is as tough as they come.

Warranty is another consideration. While other manufactures have stepped up the the plate with lifetime only Leupold has done it forever and they don't require you to fill out a silly registration card. They'll fix the darn thing no matter who is at fault and will do it quickly.

Went with the 3-18x44 with the fire dot duplex reticle. Thanks go all who provided their opinions.

chs
 
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