Looking for thoughts on bullet selection for 45/70

[mjcmichigan]

I’m considering picking up a Marlin 1895 which has a twist rate of 1:20 and a 22” barrel.

1) for 45/70 owners, what’s your preferred load and your twist rate.

2) whose bullets to you like best?

I could see myself trying to run the Nosler CTRN at 300gn if I can find them.

When I started searching for bullets, I got cold feet. I saw only a few choices.

The interest in 45:70 is two fold:
1) it’s a lever
2) it’s not another 308 cal.
[emoji3]. I do [HEAVY BLACK HEART]️ the 30 cals.


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[Thebear_78]

I ran all 350s and 405s in the 45/70. Starlike brass and H322.

405s @ 1900fps are a very effective choice.

Hornady 350s
Kodiak 405s
Remington 405s
Woodliegh 400s
Speer 405s
Cast bullets in the 400-550gr range.

Hard to go wrong with any of them


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[mjcmichigan]

Thanks Bear.

I have a mental block on bullets going 1900fps being effective.. I read a nice story about a hunter refused to shoot a caped Buffalo because a 2nd was behind it. The ProHunter insisted the hunter take the shot. The PH was not happy the hunter was using a lever action gun. The hunter complied and 2 Cape buffalo dropped. The 45/70 went through the first cleanly and had enough energy to kill the second. Shame on the PH for under estimating a load in the field.


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[Charlie-NY]

Jacketed bullet shoot better in my 1895SBL. I have had excellent results with Barnes 300 TSX (not actually jacketed), Speer 400 JFP, and Swift A-Frames which have repeatedly shot into a 1/2" at 100 yds.

Big, slow, flat-nosed, hard-cast lead bullets get most of the 45-70 attention and probably for good reason but don't count the jacketed bullets out.

 

[SJB358]

H322, IMR4198, H4198, and RL7 have all worked great with 300-550 grain Bullets in my Guide Rifle. If I was hunting deer or bear, a 300-350 grain Hornady, Swift, Nosler or Speer would be my choice.

 

[mjcmichigan]

Thank you guys.... I’m getting used to the idea of big slow freight train slugs that pound through the old fashioned way...energy and mass


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[bdbrown66]

Shooters Pro Shop has the factory second 300gr bullets on sale, at least they did the other day. I haven't killed anything with them yet, but they are plenty accurate in my Henry.

 

[Guy Miner]

Not all 45/70 bullets are created equal. Some are rather lightly constructed, and although they may work pretty well on deer, lack the strength to hold together and penetrate deeply on bigger game.

I had a 9-year run with the 45/70, two different Marlin rifles. Heck of a cartridge, heck of a rifle. There's a tendency to run 'em hard, and I did my fair share of loading the cartridge right up to book max, but it's really not necessary.

Only killed one mule deer while I was carrying a 45/70. The handloaded 405 gr Remington soft point went through both shoulders and broke the spine by passing near it. Doe dropped at the 70 yard shot, but I did have to put a finishing bullet into her to kill her, as I've found can be the case with a "high shoulder shot."

My load was only making about 1650 fps, and it worked well.

Enjoy that thumper - and maybe take a look at some of the .458" bullet tests we've posted over the years.

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[Anonymous]

A lot of folks up here use the 400gr hardcast bullets in the 45-70. In a number like the 45-70 you just don't need flashy ballistics or bullets.....more lead=more dead.

We skinned out a buddy's bear he shot with his this spring. A 1/2" hole bored all the way through 4'+ of bear diagonally. It went 20' on a death run and piled up by running headfirst into a spruce tree.

I was impressed for a load that isn't breaking 2000 fps.

 

[khh]

I was on Midway the other day and is says the 405gr. Remington has been discontinued bummer I always liked that bullet.

 

[Guy Miner]

There is a lot to be said for quality hard cast bullets with a big ol' flat nose...

The last few years I had my Marlin, I loaded 425 gr Piledriver Jr bullets from Beartooth. I wouldn't have hesitated to use those on anything from deer through polar bear or bison... Accurate, penetrate like all get out. They have quite a reputation with hunters. I never used them on game, sadly.

Guy

 

[SJB358]

I’ve shot a few deer with the 405 and 425 PDJ’s. They died similar to arrow shots.

Now quickly expanding 300’s and 350’s made quicker kills. Neither is wrong but different ways to get it done. The Speer 400 is a wide expanding bullet that might be worth looking at. I think Charlie on here had great results with them as well. Hard to beat the price too.

 

[JD338]

I've got a Marlin 1895G Guide gun in 45-70 and load the Nosler 300 gr BST at 2100 fps with H322.
It is an awesome hammer on deer.
My best 100 yard group went .400".

JD338

 

[1Shot]

For deer the 300 gr Sierra HP or Hornady pushed pretty good, Sierra's manual suggested hunting load with IMR4198 is a real good load. For heaver game Hornady 350 gr is a tougher bullet. As for cast bullets they kill from penetration through vital stuff. Unless you hit spine or brain usually you will have some tracking to do and sometimes, depending on the bullet, you may not have much of a blood trail because the hide puckers in and out and then snaps back and plugs the holes. I shot a doe white tail at 111 yards with my Sharps 45-70 with Lymans 405 FN bullet cast from wheel weight metal, on the soft side, backed by a case full of black powder doing 1400 fps. Deer was facing me and I aimed at the white on it's chest and by the time I fired and the bullet got there the deer put it's head down and the bullet struck it between the eyes in the forehead. Bullet went down the neck making saw dust of the spine deflected and came out tight behind the left shoulder then hit the left back leg just above the knee shooting it completely off. Bullet then hit the hard packed logging road and went about 5 yards down the road looking like a mole under the ground. It then came up out of the ground and hit a 6 inch pine tree and jerked a palm size chunk off the back. From there I lost track of it. A freight train does not have to be going fast to run through a bunch of stuff.

 

[bdbrown66]

For deer the 300 gr Sierra HP or Hornady pushed pretty good, Sierra's manual suggested hunting load with IMR4198 is a real good load. For heaver game Hornady 350 gr is a tougher bullet. As for cast bullets they kill from penetration through vital stuff. Unless you hit spine or brain usually you will have some tracking to do and sometimes, depending on the bullet, you may not have much of a blood trail because the hide puckers in and out and then snaps back and plugs the holes. I shot a doe white tail at 111 yards with my Sharps 45-70 with Lymans 405 FN bullet cast from wheel weight metal, on the soft side, backed by a case full of black powder doing 1400 fps. Deer was facing me and I aimed at the white on it's chest and by the time I fired and the bullet got there the deer put it's head down and the bullet struck it between the eyes in the forehead. Bullet went down the neck making saw dust of the spine deflected and came out tight behind the left shoulder then hit the left back leg just above the knee shooting it completely off. Bullet then hit the hard packed logging road and went about 5 yards down the road looking like a mole under the ground. It then came up out of the ground and hit a 6 inch pine tree and jerked a palm size chunk off the back. From there I lost track of it. A freight train does not have to be going fast to run through a bunch of stuff.

Holy smokes!!!!!

 

[SJB358]

I’ll vouch for him, heavy cast at moderate speeds is a WICKED KILLER. If you use them, use the widest FN you can find. The wider the better. That actually causes much more damage than you can imagine.

 

[1Shot]

Those slow HEAVY slugs would shoot clean through a 2000 lb bull buffalo shoulder to shoulder at considerable yardage and as the old buff hunter said "you can eat right up to the bullet hole." In the trials by the US Army of the 45-70 Trap Door Springfield with a 500 gr slug propelled by black powder they shot through 6 inch pine logs set at a 45* angle at 1000 yards and the bullet went almost a foot into the sand behind the logs. That bullets muzzle velocity was only between 1100 and 1200 fps. I have the books or have read books about these old buff hunters and their experiences with these heavy slug shooting rifles. The old saying "beware of the fellow that only has one rifle" is a truism with those old fellows.

 

[mjcmichigan]

Well, I placed my order on a Marlin 1895 45/70 22” barrel. A little late for this hunting season as I don’t have time to work up a load.. and have spent my allowance for 2018...but will work on loads for deer and bear..
maybe I’ll hunt iron sights.

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[mjcmichigan]

Maybe I was wrong about being ready.

I took three brands of bullets to the range. Federal SP jacketed, Winchester CTBT. I talked to Nosler, they said it should keep expanding down to 1600 FPS. The third was Barnes TSX flatNose (hollow point). Barnes says that bullet was designed for that specific load. Says it’s designed to expand violently from 2000-1000FPS.

With iron sites, I got all three in the main diamond. My up close eye sight is a challenge so I dropped a red dot on it.
Attached is the red dot site in sheet. The two bulls touching horizontally are the federals. The two nearly touching vertically are BArnes. All in 300gn.

Sig Romeo5 red dot. My first red dot and liking it. A little weird to keep both eyes open like a shotgun.

I shot this on the 50 at Duncans in Bay City. They have underground ranges at 50,100, and 200yds.

So Gun 1 is the Marlin 1895 with 300 gn TSX,
Backup is 3006. Vx5 firedot, 220gn Sierra ProHunter at 2660fps.

Sample of the targets.

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[mjcmichigan]

Maybe I was wrong about being ready.

I took three brands of bullets to the range. Federal SP jacketed, Winchester CTBT. I talked to Nosler, they said it should keep expanding down to 1600 FPS. The third was Barnes TSX flatNose (hollow point). Barnes says that bullet was designed for that specific load. Says it’s designed to expand violently from 2000-1000FPS.

With iron sites, I got all three in the main diamond. My up close eye sight is a challenge so I dropped a red dot on it.
Attached is the red dot site in sheet. The two bulls touching horizontally are the federals. The two nearly touching vertically are BArnes. All in 300gn.

Sig Romeo5 red dot. My first red dot and liking it. A little weird to keep both eyes open like a shotgun.

I shot this on the 50 at Duncans in Bay City. They have underground ranges at 50,100, and 200yds.

So Gun 1 is the Markin 1895 with 300 gn TSX,
Backup is 3006. Vx5 firedot, 220gn Sierra ProHunter at 2660fps.

Sample of the targets.

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