My Winchester model 70 hunting rifle "project"...FINISHED!!!

[Oldtrader3]

Ridgerunner don't worry, I just was making a suggestion based on your locale. It is hard for me to know 2500 miles away what your conditions are locally.

The new Vortex Viper HS is Japan assembled and has a good reputation with everyone that I know who has bought one. The Minox suggestion was just that. I own (6) different brands of scopes (including Vortex and Minox) and am not wedded to any. They all have their place in my gunsafe, even the old VXII and XXIII Leupold's and Redfield Illuminators. I no longer own a Nikon though, except camera gear.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Oh I wasn't worried...I guess that post did sound a little "off" now that I think about it (didn't mean for it to)...I am glad to get the suggestions, I guess I just left out a few important facts about the situation there at home.

I have some older Lupy's too...even an old Baush & Lomb thats still going strong...

 

[Oldtrader3]

I had a B&L Elite 3-9x40 that I gave to my grandson for his .280 Rem, Browning A-Bolt. It was the Japanese model with internal adjustments but still is a decent scope for a kid's first rifle.

Some of the old scopes are still pretty good. I have an older 3-9x42 Redfield Illuminator (Denver) from the mid-1980's that I will put up against any VX3 Leupold. The lens coatings are also very good which surprised me on how well they held up over the years.

I looked, I do not have any 165 grain .308 Accubonds, only 168 CT-ST's and 165 gr Partitions. I have used the 165 Partiton in a .30-06 since the mid-1960's which is a big deal in today's market obsolescence driven culture. I shoot Accubonds in other calibers, just not .30-06.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I've been shooting nothing but 168 BT's since I found them a few years back (in the 308)...I ordered 1,000 of them to start with but have ordered a few more since then, LOL.

I like them...they will make it to 1,000 yards and still be accurate as long as the muzzle velocity is at least 2,600 fps...thats why I don't much like the 165's...well, its not that I don't like the 165's its just that the 168 is better (IMO)...the 165's go all squirrely at about 850 yards (MV @ 2,600 fps)

The 168 is just a more aerodynamic bullet...thats why I said I wish Nosler would offer the AccuBond in 168 grains...I'd switch in a heartbeat.

Honestly...having shot both (165 and 168 BT's) in a few different rifles...I don't see why they even offer the 165. The 168 has been as good or better in all of the rifles (two 308's and two 30-06's)

The AccuBond is more or less just a bonded Ballistic Tip...I'm sure its a good bullet even though I've never fired one.

I know most folks don't care what a bullet does past 300 yards, but some of us do...and true hunting bullets with the potential of the 168 BT are a very rare thing. The BT's were always advertised as long range bullets...they do perform well at this task...but why not maximize them by offering the "optimal" weights?

I'm just an old hillbilly...but if I were making the decisions at Nosler...I would offer the 30 caliber AB in 155 grains, 168 grains, 180 grains (or 175 grains), and 190 grains.....those would be for standard calibers (such as 30-06)

For 30 caliber magnums...200 grains, and 210 grains...these could also be used in the 30-06, but 190 is a better weight for non-magnums with 22-24" barrels

But hey....what do I know? LOL...

I'm a dedicated Nosler shooter..no doubt about that...but when people are scrambling for long range hunting bullets with optimal BC's (Berger)...I think Nosler is missing out on a decent part of the market share. Noslers are far and away better suited to hunting than Bergers VLD's will ever be...not knocking the VLD's (good bullets)...but I think the good ole Noslers could beat them at their own game if Nosler would just tweak the bullet weights a bit.

FWIW...Long Range Hunting forum has 33,000 members

Just my opinion...

 

[BK]

I like the sound of a 210 AB... That'd be a good bullet for my RUM and Weatherby.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have used the 165 Partition for almost (50) years now. I have killed deer from 20 yards running to 400 yards broadside with the 165 gr PT and have had an exit wound, a dead deer and a single shot kill on every deer that I have ever shot with this bullet from a .300 Savage, .308 Win, .30-06, .308 Norma Mag, .300 H&H and .300 WSM.

I do not normally shoot game at more than 400 yards. In fact usually not more than 350 yards except for a couple of exceptions. If Nosler quit making the 165 Partition, I would probably quit using my .30-06 for deer hunting.

I really do not get excited about what a bullet still has at 800 yards in terms of stability but I do expect pretty predictable expansion performance to 400 yards. Different strokes for different folks but there are more hunters like me than there are real live 800 yard hunters. I shoot a lot and live within my predictable kill limits.

Lots of forum talk and high interest in shooting steel at long range but I think more talk about long range hunting than actual doing. This is just an observation from watching people shoot at the local club and in the field.

 

[SJB358]

I think you are right RR665. I would buy them if they offered them. I don't shoot much past 600 for most shooting and so my hunting is limited to that, but if I had the space, I would certainly try and stretch it further.

Looking forward to seeing the rifle when it is all finished up. It sounds like a truly awesome package.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

The Partition is a whole nuther monster...no reason at all to change the bullet weights for it...I'm just talking about the BT and AB (boat tail bullets).

Many benchrest guys (less than 300 yards) swear by flat base bullets...or at least they used to...all the benchresters I know are geezers now, LOL.

I limit myself to 600 yards because thats all my current equipment (the M70) is good for...I have 3 custom rifles (two 308's and a 300WM) that I have used at longer ranges with good success...but all 3 of them are in need of rebarreling and are too heavy to carry very far, LOL....so I just got a new rifle, better suited to general hunting...but still 600 yard capable if the need arises.

Yeah...a lot of it is just that...forum talk...but there are more people beginning to take it seriously. As you said...different strokes for different folks.

I got hooked on the long range shooting at an early age (9)...blame it on Jim Carmichael...his book (The Book of the Rifle) grabbed my interest and the rest is history...for some reason I was infinitely amazed with ballistics and wanted to know more...by the time I was 12 I was busting groundhogs in excess of 500 yards with a 25-06.

I still shoot varmints (coyotes) at any range that I can see them...its good practice.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Without we "geezers", you young guys would think that you know it all!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

LOL....I learned most of what I know from them...and I ain't too proud to admit it.

Without them, we wouldn't have all these fine rounds that came about during the glory days of wildcatting...its kinda sad that for us normal folks...wildcatting is dead.

The only real wildcatting left is with the extreme long range rounds (e.g. the Allen Magnums, 7mm Fatboy, 338 EDGE, etc.)...and that kind of wildcatting is a prohibitively expensive habit.

I hope nobody takes offense to that "geezer" term...but I thought it sounded better than just saying they were old or over the hill or whatever.

We all get there (hopefully)...I'm well on my way (39) and I'm much too young to feel this dang old! And at the same time...I'm old enough to know better, but still too young to care!

 

[6mm Remington]

ENABLER!!!

LOL...just kidding :grin:

I would like to try the AB's without committing to the price of a whole box...is this the internet's way of paying it forward, LOL?

Lynn they just took off on the Pony Express so they should be there............who knows when! :roll: I put a few in there so had more than just 6 to play with. We actually do have a "pay it forward" section here, and there have been a lot of nice folks who have helped out and done something nice for someone else. You should go take a peak at it in the Classifieds section.

Hope they shoot well for you.
David

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Will do David...looking forward to trying the AB's.


I've been home a few hours now and have been neck deep in comparing scopes...My sons Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 against my Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44....

The Nikon cost right at $400 and is a very good scope IMO....The $500 Vortex is another rung up the ladder though.

The Vortex provides a clearer, brighter, sharper image...plain and simple. I've seen many folks equate the Viper HS to the VX II's...I think those folks have their scopes mixed up, they have to be thinking the regular Viper is the Viper HS...because the Viper HS is clearly (very clearly) well up into VX III territory.

The V-Plex reticle is thin....really thin the first time you look at it...but I sat out there until it got dark looking through both scopes (the Nikon is a Mil-Dot) and by the time I lost the reticle in the Vortex it was well after legal shooting hours (1/2 hour after sunset)...I took some pics through both scopes, I'll post some later tonight but the pictures just don't do either scope justice (pics taken with a cell phone)

OK...also...I weighed the plastic stock that is on my model 70...the cheap plastic POS weighs a full 2 lbs. believe it or not. The McMillan might weigh 4 ounces more...maybe.

The Vortex weighs 5 ounces more than the Nikon I had on there...so that puts the rifles weight at 8.75 lbs. (loaded with 5 rounds, sling...ready to hunt weight)

And the super low TPS rings with the 30mm scope...I was a little worried that it might be too low but if fit perfect with about 3/16" between the objective and the barrel, plenty of room for flip up caps if I wanna use them.

More later...

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Across the holler behind my house....440 yards exactly to that small cedar (you can see it better through the scopes)

The Nikon on 8x...

The Vortex on 8x...

The Nikon on 14x...

The Vortex on 16x...

 

[Ridgerunner665]

There is a noticeable difference in the lens coatings...both have their good and bad points...the Nikon shows a little more contrast, but the Vortex is much clearer, cleaner image (even though the pics don't really show it) ...clear all the way to the edge with "ZERO" distortion...none.

The Vortex has so much eye relief (a solid 4") it took me a few minutes to get used to it, LOL...and it doesn't change when you crank up the power. The Nikon changes alot as the power goes up...

Eyebox...Vortex calls it "ultra-friendly" eyebox technology...and it is. Even on 16x keeping the image is not a problem, there is a little room for movement before it washes out. The Nikon on 14x...washes out really quick if you move at all.

 

[DrMike]

The pictures are pretty convincing, despite being taken with your cell phone. Good stuff.

 

[SJB358]

Yeah, those look pretty good buddy. I had the Buckmaster 4.5x14-40AO. Decent scope, but the Vortex seems really good!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Now....if I just had that McMillan.... :mrgreen:

Brock's Nikon is a side focus Buckmasters...he bought it last December but I haven't had time to mount it. He's coming in this week for a few days (he's a Marine) and we were hoping to do some shooting but its gonna be awful dang hot for the next few days (over 100 degrees)

I am gonna mount both scopes tomorrow...

 

[BK]

Now....if I just had that McMillan.... :mrgreen:

I have just one left on order... a light green/white McSwirley for my Ruger .358. If I knew what was in my future employment-wise, I would probably order a couple more (okay, six!). I'll have a Remington KS pattern in a black/red/yellow McFlame (I hope I got it right this time!) for my eventual 6.5-06 or .338-06 waiting for me when I get home.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

David,
The AB's came today..Thank You!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Got 3 of the AB's loaded and ready to shoot tomorrow...