New Nosler all copper bullet (sort of)

[Guest]

I will never go back to copper bullets. It's a marketing ploy from everyone involved I feel to make people switch, also using scare tactics etc. We all have shot lead bullets for ages, consumed the meat and I don't know of a lot of people dying from lead poisoning in the process.

I shot copper bullets a few years and never cared for the extensive copper build up in the barrel.
I'm forever sticking with Accubonds and Partitions.

Don

 

[Guest]

I've used the E-Tip in a couple of rifles. I view them like any other bullet: Do they suit the purpose for which I intend to use them?

In a word, "Yes." I use E-Tips in my hyper-velocity magnums, like the 270Wby and the 300Wby. I want a bullet that will expand at distance (which I think these will, based on what Nosler is telling me about their testing and my own field experience at 175yds. I also want that bullet to hold together and penetrate at close range. A 130gr E-Tip from my 270Wby went end to end, traveling down the right hand side of the spinal column of a white-tail (over 4' of total penetration) from a 25yd impact (impact velocity ~3400fps) and exited with a half-dollar sized exit hole about two inches to the right of and above where the tail joined the rump on that deer. Pretty tough bullet. I hope to take a "ribs and lungs" broadside shot this season with that bullet out at about 300yds or so, just to get a good comparison. I'll post those results, for sure, if I get the chance. I've found the E-Tips to foul about the same as BT's and other cup/core bullets with gilding metal jackets. I did find the Barnes X/TSX/TTSX solid copper bullets to foul significantly more in these same guns.

The point for me is, use what's best suited. I use the BT in my -06, because a muzzle velocity of 2900-2950 is within the design parameters of that bullet, and it's a great game bullet with high accuracy. I use the BT in my 8x57 for the same reason. My 30-30WCF uses Speer Hot-Cors in 150gr. There are others, but this at least gives a sampling of what I'm using. Why do I use these various bullets? Because in each case, they fit the expectations I have for the rifle and load. That's the key. I could very likely use Partitions or Accubonds in my 'bees, but the E-Tips are accurate, hit hard, and hold up. What's not to like?

 

[Horsethief]

Dubyam is right, in my opinion, about using a bullet if it meets its intended purpose. I've never tried the E-Tips, but I might someday. The Barnes TSXs are far more accurate in my .257 Wby than Sierra's cup and core bullets of the same weight. There is nothing else I know of in the 110gn categoy but the AccuBond, so it stands in a class by itself on two level and we know that it is a fine bullet, no doubt.

I regard the 120gn Partition as a small Hammer of Thor. While it will not achieve the muzzle velocity of the TSXs, it still has great accuracy and will do the job I want it to do. I don't know the hold ups of making a 130gn Partition-style bullet for a .25 caliber, but I don't know what I don't know. Since no bullet manufacturer has done it, I assume there must be a large problem with it.

I think I saw boxes of the new Federal ammo when I was in a store and at first I thought they were Barnes bullets due to the rings in the bullet. I know the original, unbanded Barnes' had big copper fouling problems and the rings helped reduce that problem as well as keeping chamber pressures lower than the orignal, unbanded bullets had. The bands are likely here to stay for whoever puts them on their bullets, and with good reason.

 

[DrMike]

That is an excellent summation, dubyam. I do use the 130 grain E-Tip in my 270WSM, and it works quite well. I have used the TSX in several rifles over the years, but always in rifles that generated enough velocity to ensure they would open. The one time I didn't pay attention to my own advice, the bullet failed to open and sailed right through.

 

[bullet]

I have used TSX and TTSX for five years combined in hunting game. You keep them, I don't use them anymore, only because terminal results were not consistent and my shot placement was good on every animal I shot with them. I do not like the E-Tip period and only one animal shot with the E-Tip and it was a small 120pound boar using a 150gr E-Tip. Hog died but he went a ways. I will say though I like the wound channel better than the Barnes.

The E-Tip reaches pressures to quick and standard velocities for a caliber are most of the time lower than the caliber can do with other bullets. I tried the E-Tip in three different cartridges and I am not impressed with the velocities nor the lack of consistency of consecutive groups being good tight groups and like TSX or TTSX they are not very good performers at longer distances for lack of opening up very well do to velocities. You like copper bullets then shoot them, I don't any more except the TSX in calibers of 35 and up as long as it is not a long range shot.

My field results with the Barnes TSX over a period of time turned me off to them. Glad some like them, I don't and won't use them anymore and can find no place for the E-Tip in any of my rilfes and FOTIS knows who hard I tried and how many chance I gave the E-Tip. Please, don't anyone get bent out of shape because I expressed my dislike for the Branes or the E-tip, it is just where I find my self in my experiences which are not to be compared to yours nor do I want to. Thanks :mrgreen:

 

[FOTIS]

Well IMO that is what the e-tip needs is grooves.

yup

 

[onesonek]

Hard to change much in an already efficient ogive, to make up the near .040-.050 BC loss due to the grooves.
This is where the shooting public can't always have the cake and eat it too. Either one takes the inherent higher BC and give up some intial velocity, or lose it on the down range end with the relief grooves. Nothing comes for free. From time trials I shot with the original X against the TSX, there just wasn't much difference at the longer end of normal hunting range's. But from what I see, speed slightly out sells BC,,,,imo

 

[usmc 89]

Copper is King, Lead is Dead. All Hail the EPA!

Greg -
I refuse to use copper!! I don't care if they penetrate deeper and fly better...it is the principle of not using them because of the tree huggers and enviro-nazi's that have forced some of the population here to use them. Sorry Nosler, I will never buy an E-tip.

I here you Joel, if it comes to pass that lead is outlawed in Montana I Will be sure to buy at rifle that fires a 500 grain slug with lead that has been drawn and recycled from the ducks I shoot.

 

[Guest]

I haven't had trouble making velocity with the E-Tips, as far as compared to traditional lead core stuff. In my 270Wby, I'm getting 3420fps from the E-Tips in a "year round safe load" and with lead core stuff, I was getting about 3430-3450fps in the same. I can get 3500fps out of lead core stuff but it is only safe in low temps, which tells me it's borderline to say the least.

Accuracy was a tougher nut to crack, but I did find it (unless .65" three shot 100yd groups are unacceptable in a hunting rifle ). It takes some getting used to, and I found shifting to slower powders worked well, but beyond that, I've not had problems, except for accuracy being poor when seated at traditional COLs. But, I had the same accuracy issues with the TTSX, so it's a wash in that respect. Just give them a bit longer jump and Viola! you're in business.

Of course, for those of you who don't like to use them, I'm not offended. Use what you think will work the best for you. That's the beauty of why we handload - so we can tailor our loads to our preferences.

 

[SJB358]

I will say this about all copper, and I will caveat it with I have taken any game with the ET. I think they are pretty good bullets, but I don't think they kill quite as well as lead cored bullet like the premium PT's or AB's. Again, I have only take a Moose, elk, muleys, caribou and black bear with TSX's or older X bullets. Not alot to draw alot of conclusions. All of them died pretty darned dead, but they seemed to move off more unaffected than the same animals with either PT's or AB's. I am not saying they aren't great bullets, because I think they are, but I think there is something to loosing a little lead in the wound cavity faster and penetrating 90-95%. I tried the 168's in my 300WSM and didn't hit a load right off. I should try again, as they are pretty slick bullets with a good BC, but the 180 AB's seem to shoot better and I have faith the AB's will open up over a broader range of shots.

Again, I am not arguing their effectiveness at all. I know Mike slays beasts with his 270WSM and 130 ET's and others on here have had great luck with them and TSX's and GMX's. If I was to shoot All Copper bullets, the ET's would be my choice, great BC and the most conventional mushroom I have seen so far. They have alot going for them.

Who knows, maybe I will try them in my 25-06 for grins, but I have a ton of 115-120 PT's to try first!

 

[bullet]

Well until it is demanded by law I shoot all copper, I am over copper bullets and they just aren't as an effective quick killer on a consistent bases as the bonded bullets I can shoot or some cup core in none magnum cartridges. Yep, copper bullets, been there and done that. :mrgreen:

 

[Guest]

Bullet Quoted:
The E-Tip reaches pressures to quick and standard velocities for a caliber are most of the time lower than the caliber can do with other bullets. I tried the E-Tip in three different cartridges and I am not impressed with the velocities nor the lack of consistency of consecutive groups being good tight groups and like TSX or TTSX they are not very good performers at longer distances for lack of opening up very well do to velocities. You like copper bullets then shoot them, I don't any more except the TSX in calibers of 35 and up as long as it is not a long range shot.

You said it better than I could quote it Bullet. I tried the 180 E-Tip in my 300 RUM had the same issues you stated, hit pressures very fast, no matter the powder. I saw enough to abandon the process.

I do believe the E-tip is a good bullet, just not for my particular rifle.

Don