new problem..

[metallica]

What would cause burnt powder to be blown back over the case once its shot?

8 out of 38 rounds had this problem and all were high and way left (average 6" to teh left) the other 30 rounds were perfect

Is this bad brass, re-sizing issue, an under chardge?

this is once fire brass, full lenght resized, and powder checked twice...

 

[OU812]

Burnt powder being blown back down the length of the case is usually a sign that the case did not get a good gas seal upon being fired. What caliber are we talking about here?

Some of the causes as I know them are bad primers, weak/sticky or misadjusted firing pin, too low of a powder charge, too slow of a powder burn rate for the bullet weight, contmainated powder.

Did you change lot # of the same powder type during the reloading? A much higher POI on the target along with the black soot on the cases would lead me to think the powder charge was less than the rest or maybe the powder got contaminated with case lube or the such and did not fully ignite as the rest.

 

[metallica]

300 WBY

same powder for all the shells.

74gr. of IMR4831
cci mag primers
165gr. accubonds

there only going about 2900ftsec on my chrony

I was just about to try working up the load but I dont think I can get them to shoot any straighter. A 5 shot group of the good shells has them all touching at 100yds. its just these 8 shells that are flyers all in the same spot.

should I reload these shell or throw them out and just move on with the good ones?

thanks

 

[OU812]

With the additional info you provided about your current load I would do the following. I would increase the powder charge 1-2 grains to 76 or 77 and try again. I have seen what you have discribed in another WBY rifle and the cause at that time was a load with a min powder charge. My Nosler #5 book lists IMR4831 for the 300 WBY 165 bullet min powder charge as 75. With WBY rounds the min powder charge listed can cause problems with the 300 and 338-378, according to the Norma reloading manual. I would also recommend trying Fed215 primers for the WBY.

Internal case sizes vary slightly and that would explain why some shot fine and other shot poorly with a bad gas seal.

Try weighing all the brass with the soot and the ones that fired fine and compare. A water test is more accurate but just weighing them might tell ya something.

One other thing about WBY rounds. Most WBY guns shot best close to max or at max listed powder charge. This not to say to jump right to max but work up slowly and watch for over pressure.

 

[R Flowers]

Everything OU812 has said is right on track. He is giving good advice here.

Try upping the powder charge. Weatherby's like to shoot closer to max, generally.

You are simply not getting a good gas seal on every shot. I had a similar problem with a .223 WSSM even at max loads when using 40 grain bullets. Those .223 WSSM cases are very thick.

I would also second his recommendation for the Fed 215 primer. That primer was developed by Federal for use in Weatherby cartridges.

 

[metallica]

Thanks guys. Ill load up some heavier loads this weekend. I normaly use the Fed. 215 primers but none of the gun shops here in Edmonton have any in stock right now.

And the only reason I went to such a low charge was beccause when I was using the IMR7828, and R22 I couldnt get the accubonds to shoot well at the 3100ftsec. but ill give it a go with the IMR4831

thanks again guys

 

[OU812]

Thanks guys. Ill load up some heaver loads this weekend. I normaly use the Fed. 215 primers but none of the gun shops here in Edmonton have any in stock right now.

And the only reason I went to such a low charge was beccause when I was using the IMR7828, and R22 I couldnt get the accubonds to shoot well at the 3100ftsec. but ill give it a go with the IMR4831

thanks again guys

With the WBY one thing ya might try is to neck size the fired brass as opposed to FL sizing. What COL are you using? If your not already doing so ya might seat the bullets out to the limit of your mag box and come back in .005 at a time. RL-22 is usually a standby powder for the 300WBY. Let us know how things work out.

 

[R Flowers]

Once again, OU812 is right on the money.

Try some RL 22 behind those Accubonds. It is the powder I use in my 300 Wby Mag.

I just load my 300 Weatherby stuff out as far as my magazine will allow. With the freebore, you cannot get close to the lands.

Layne Simpson had a good article in Shooting Times when the 30 caliber Accubonds first came out. He was using the first 200 grain bullets and could not get them to shoot until he seated them rather deep in the case.

Sadly, the 200 Accubonds did not work out in my 300 Wby Mag at any OAL. They just did not shoot well. I just stuck with the 180 Partitions which shoot great.

In regards to the Accubonds, I have had VERY mixed results. Some guns shoot them well and some just do not like them. I tried the .338 caliber 225 grain Accubonds in 6 different rifles before I found one that would keep them inside 2.5 inches. The one that liked them shot them into groups of less than 0.5 inches, repeatedly!!

I am currently fighting with a 300 WSM that was shooting 165 Accubonds under an inch a year ago, but now will seldom keep them within 2 inches. I do not think it is the gun, it still shoots 180 Partitions in 3/4 of an inch and 180 Sierra Pro Hunters insid a half inch.

These guns will drive you crazy!

 

[metallica]

right now my COL is 3.715 That is the max length I can feed through the mag without them getting caught up.

And I have tryed the R22 and I couldnt get it to shoot with the 180 or 165gr accubonds. Then I went to the IMR7828 and also couldnt get it to shoot well. I thought it was my loading or my shooting but as soon as I switched to the IMR4831 there awesome. Now Ill just have to work up the load to hopefully stop the blow back of powder.

Ill let you know how it goes, I want to get out to the range this weekend but I know it will be too busy with the weekend warriors getting ready for hunting season.

 

[metallica]

Well I tried and tried but as soon as I uped the charge wieght the accuracy went to shits. the best groups were 75gr but I was only getting 2900ft/sec. I talked to a couple guys at my range that also shoot wby's and they also said they couldnt get the accubonds to shoot well either and to try the TSX. So I did and im getting them to shoot great. here is my final load

168gr Barnes TSX
Nosler brass 300wby
cci 250 primers (only because I cant buy any 215M here)
81gr IMR 4831

COAL 3.700"

3170 ft/sec

100yds + 3.5"
200yds + 3"
300yds + 2"

 

[OU812]

Well I tried and tried but as soon as I uped the charge wieght the accuracy went to shits. the best groups were 75gr but I was only getting 2900ft/sec. I talked to a couple guys at my range that also shoot wby's and they also said they couldnt get the accubonds to shoot well either and to try the TSX. So I did and im getting them to shoot great. here is my final load

168gr Barnes TSX
Nosler brass 300wby
cci 250 primers (only because I cant buy any 215M here)
81gr IMR 4831

COAL 3.700"

3170 ft/sec

100yds + 3.5"
200yds + 3"
300yds + 2"

I'm happy to hear things worked out for the better. Just a little food for though here. I don't know how far your wanting to shoot or what game animal you intend to hunt if any but 2900 FPS with a 180 is nothing to sneeze at. There is not an animal in NA that could tell the difference between 2900 and 3170 FPS. A little slower velocity will also save some wear and tear on your barrel.

 

[metallica]

It is 2900 ft/sec with a 165gr AccuBond. a little slow for a 300 wby IMO

 

[OU812]

My bad, I thought you were running 180 grain bullets. That is a little slow for a 165 grain bullet but still not bad for any animal in NA. I've never driven the Barnes bullets mainly because I have heard many times they tend to copper foul very quickly. Good luck with your new found load, sounds like a real shooter.

 

[metallica]

2900 ft/sec is good but I was getting blow back at that charge wieght. and as soon as I uped the charge the acuracy went for a shit. I have also heard that TSX can foul a barrel something awefull (spelling??) but how often do you shoot more then 3 to 4 shots at an animal?? I wish the accubonds would shoot better in my rifle cause I think there a great bullet and really wanted to use them sheep hunting but my gun doesnt like them ;( . maybe next year I can try the new all copper nosler bullet...

 

[OU812]

Have you tried the 180 grain accubonds with H4831SC? I know several guys who are using this combo with stellar accuracy and very good velocity.

Did you try .5 grain increments or even 1/10 grain with the accubonds? With my weatherby once I found 1 powder charge that shot well I was always able to find 2-3 more charge weights for the given powder that would shoot very well. I'm not trying to push away from the load you found that shoots so well it's just that I have LOTS of faith in accubonds when it comes to game animals.

I was thinking more about the practice time at the range is where severe copper fouling will happen, and cleaning severe copper fouling sucks.

 

[metallica]

yeah I love the accubonds as well and tryed every load from 74gr to 81 gr in .5 gr incerments and the best I could get was at the 75gr mark but the blow back shots were 6" off the mark, really not that acceptable. trust me ive shot 150, 165 accubonds this summer and tried everything. I have had some bad experiences with bullets like the fail safe, similar to the TSX but I rather have confidence in my shot placement then bullet performance, now all I need is a sheep to test the TSX.......

 

[OU812]

How big of groups were you getting with the accubonds? I'm assuming you were shooting at 100 yards?

 

[metallica]

any load above 75gr was 2" group or more. When hunting in the mountains you dont get too many 100yd shots. the groups out to 3ooyds were 6" plus, not great, the 75gr load was awsesome out to 300yds shooting less then 1" but it was the odd blow back load the was 6" off the mark at 100yds. increase the charge to 75.5 (2920 ft/sec) and the loads started to open out still getting the odd blow back from not fully sealing off the chmber....

 

[OU812]

That is odd you never found another powder charge that would shoot well. Well ya got to stick with what works.

 

[metallica]

yeah i tried IMR 7828 and RL 22 and no luck, I would have also tried H4831 but anouther thing I cant find here in Edmonton....... Ill post my results of the TSX at the end of hunting season