Non-lead Bullets?

[NYDAN]

I often see forum members recommending the e-tip, GMX, TSX and other non-lead bullets. I had assumed that hunters used them where they were legally required to. But, now I think my assumption was incorrect. It appears that they are often used even where not required.

I had always thought that copper jacketed lead (or lead alloy) bullets made the best projectiles due to their density and ability to expand and therefore I looked down my nose at the copper/copper alloy bullets. I must be wrong in my thinking. My hunting experiences have mostly been with deer sized game. When I went on my elk hunts, it was before the development of non-lead bullets. We used the Nosler Partition bullets to ensure bullet integrity and penetration.

Please help educate me. What makes non-lead bullets desireable to use? Why do people use them if they don't have to? Should I be developing non-lead loads for my 270 Win?

Dan

 

[DrMike]

The monolithic bullets conserve mass at high impact velocities. Thus, one can use lighter bullets pushed at higher velocities for flatter trajectories and increased energy delivered on target. They allow for greater penetration of dense materials. The down side is that they do not always have the desired disruption of bodily systems due to smaller wound cavities. There is no perfect projectile, but these do provide increased options for the hunter. I've had excellent results with E-Tips in my 270 WSM and 338 Federal. Previously, I had excellent results with TSX bullets in the 300 WSM, 30-06 and 358 Winchester. I keep a good selection of monolithic bullets for loading at any time.

 

[gerry]

They usually penetrate deep so you can use a lighter weight bullet, for example the 200 gr TTSX penetrates as far as pretty much every 250 gr lead core bullet out of a 35 Whelen or 358 Norma. In your 270 Win something like the 110 gr TTSX will penetrate quite deep. The downside at this time is they don't expand as reliably at show speeds like lead core bullets although the tipped versions are better than the hollowpoint versions. Speed is your friend using the mono bullets.

 

[Guy Miner]

They actually work real well, particularly if driven hard. Tend to penetrate very deeply and hang together exceptionally well.

Expansion issues with the early hollow point mono-metal bullets seems to have been alleviated by the use of plastic "nose cones" on the Nosler E-Tip and Barnes TTSX.

They can be excellent hunting bullets. I am happy with my lead-core bullets, but have socked away quite a few E-Tips and TSX's, just in case somebody decrees that my hunting area is suddenly a lead-free zone.

It's not at all unbelievable. I can't even hunt pheasants, grouse and chukar with lead shot anymore, because of where I hunt. Lead is banned in shotgun shells already, I'm just waiting for the other boot to drop and be forced to no longer hunt with my lead-core bullets. Phooey.

Guy

 

[NYDAN]

Dr. Mike, Gerry, Guy,

Thank you for your explanations. I have a much better understanding now.

The way NYS is going, maybe I had better get a few on hand.

Dan

 

[gerry]

I would take a hard look at some of these....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/184828 ... uctFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/635411 ... uctFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/124913 ... uctFinding

 

[jhuener]

Hi Dan,

I've shot a lot of game over the years with conventional cup and core bullets. In recent years, though, there's been more information on the secondary poisoning of eagles (we see a real spike in the number of sick eagles in the weeks following deer season - I work for MN DNR at a large wildlife area in the NW part of the state - birds pick up fragments from gut piles or unrecovered game). I've also seen the X-rays of packaged venison that had small lead fragments in it. So... as a reloading challenge, I decided to see if I could make non-toxics work in my rifles, and in the process provide safer venison for the family.

I found the bullets to be surprisingly accurate and effective, although I admit my sample sizes are low. I've shot 3 bucks with 130 grain .270 E-tips, and none went very far. I've also extended the research to the 140 grain Hornady Mono-flex bullets in my old .30/30, and two nice bucks have fallen to single bullets from that combination. It works for me.

Here's a .270 E-tip from the first whitetail I tried it on. The bullet weighed 127 grains when it was all said and done - I assume that just means the polycarbonate tip was missing.



Joel

 

[Dr. Vette]

I switched to them in Dad's 7mm Wby because I could not get Accubonds, Bergers or Sierras to group well. As soon as I tried the TTSX it shot bugholes. Interestingly enough he then wanted to start with the LRX 200 in his 300 Weatherby, and that one also shows excellent accuracy.

As already noted the penetration is exceptional.

I have purchased many of them that I will use to work up loads in my own 300 Wby as well as 270 Wins.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I refuse to use them as a matter of principle...I cannot bring myself to support or even appear to accept the way non-lead bullets/shot have been crammed down our throats....all based on BS!

Not saying they are not decent bullets...they probably are...

 

[gerry]

I can understand that sentiment RR but will point out that Barnes did invent the X bullet long before our current situation. I still like lead bullets better but know guys who only shoot mono bullets now.

 

[Thebear_78]

At speeds over 3k I always reach for a mono metal. The 168gr tsx and Ttsx @ 3340fps out of my 300 rum is amazing. I have yet to recover one and this load has 3 black bear, 3 caribou, 4 moose, and one unfortunate grouse. Ranges from 100-519 yards always with reliable expansion and great penetration. I shot a bull moose with a follow up "Texas heart shot". 5+ feet of penetration at 200 yards.

The 130 TTSX in my wife's 270 shoots big holes @ 3100fps and I have complete confidence in it on any north american large game.

Slower rounds in the 2000-2800fps I normally run led cup/ core type billets.

 

[PJGunner]

I haven't done much with the monometal bullets other than with my .35 Whelen. Worked up to a 2710 FPS load with the 225 gr. TSX and it sure is a solid cow elk stopper. First two elk were bang/flops/DRT but the one I took last January required a finisher. My bad as I didn't give quite enough lead. I figure if I ever do another bull elk hunt they'll work just as good there.
I've done some minor work with them with 100 gr. bullets in the .257 Robt. and 120 and 140 gr. bullets for the 7x57 Mauser but so far have not been too happy with the results. I get the speed but not the accuracy and that 7x57 is very accurate with the 140 gr. Ballistic Tip. So far just using the TSX bullets as I haven't been able to chase down any TTSX. I've also run the 120 and 140 gr. TSX bullets in my .280 Rem, with rather dismal results.
Funny thing about the TSX in the .257. My ex-son in law and I have the same make rifles, Winchester M70 Featherweights. His shoots the 100 gr. TSX into teeny tiny groups and mine struggles to do 1.5". I did the load work up for both rifles. :? Confusion reigns. In my case it's a steady downpour. :roll:
Paul B.

 

[Guy Miner]

Laughin' here Paul.

I understand! :grin:

 

[MrMinks2]

I've used both the .257 cal. TSX and the TTSX and never quite achieved the accuracy that I can get from the NP's & NBT's. I suspect that this lack of accuracy could be due to the short COAL recommended by Barnes.

Any thoughts?

 

[DrMike]

I generally allow a 0.100 inch jump to the lands with monolithic bullets, especially for those with high copper content. The Hornady GMX appears not to require such a long jump to the lands. A conversation with one of the Hornady ballisticians confirmed this observation. Likewise, conversations with ballisticians working with Barnes bullets has confirmed that the TSX (and other monolithic Barnes bullets) does deliver greater accuracy and generate less pressure with a longer jump to the lands. I have seldom loaded closer than 0.050 inches from the lands with either Barnes X-bullets, TSX or TTSX. The same holds true with the E-Tip, which does deliver some excellent accuracy.

 

[HeathSexton]

I shoot the 80 GMX from my 243 and the 130 TTSX from my 30/06 and both are loaded very short and both shoot around .5". The 243 Win with the 80gr mono will make you think you are shooting a much larger rifle when you hit critters with it.

 

[jimbires]

I've used both the .257 cal. TSX and the TTSX and never quite achieved the accuracy that I can get from the NP's & NBT's. I suspect that this lack of accuracy could be due to the short COAL recommended by Barnes.

Any thoughts?

I've only used them in one rifle , 160 grain TSX in a 7mm rem mag . if I remember right I was jumping .070 or .075 .I had very good accuracy . I just didn't like the on game performance . I prefer lead core bullets .

 

[SJB358]

I used Barnes in the past, they worked fine, but I think one of the best looking mushrooms is an ET pushed hard. Great frontal area and they seem to hold onto it while Barnes seems to lose petals when driven faster and when encountering heavy bone. Just my small sample from a 300 Win, 35 Whelen and 7mm Rem Mag between some moose, elk, deer and black bear.

I do like the lead cored bullets though. I figure if a lead cored bullet retains 70% or more there's very little left behind.

 

[beerbucksducks]

I've been using 85 tsx in my .243 and just started loading 165 ttsx in my 300 wsm. I also load 150 tsx for my friends a7 308. I have had great results seating to mag length or a little deeper. This usually seats the bullet where the top of the neck is in line with the top groove on the Barnes bullet. This strategy has worked pretty well so far. One picky savage 243 doesn't want to shoot the Barnes so we are going to try some 95 btips. I do love the Barnes but btips are my go to bullet for an accuracy load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[baltz526]

I found that the 180gr Etip was way too hard for deer sized game at 300 Win Mag velocity. If I was Forced to shoot a Mono Metal. It would be a light for Caliber one. 150gr E-tip at 3300 for the 300 Win Mag. I would Probably go with the Lightest Mono Metal Made in Each Non Magnum Caliber. If there was not a Light Option I would shoot Bone