Nosler 264 Win Mag Brass

[SJB358]

Well, I was able to get out today and do some shooting. I have really been trying to get my 264 dialed in the last few times out to the range and so far, I have came up really lacking. I just could not put my finger on it. I even took it back outta the stock and resanded/finished the barrel channel. I am going to try and explain this as best I can, but I am not a writer..

First off, I need to give you all some back story, when I got this rifle, I also got a bunch of Nosler 2nds 125 PT's Trophy Grade Ammo from a fellow member her. I was stoked, 40 loaded rounds to get me started and figure out what the rifle is doing...

Well, I shot them all up and used them foulers during load work, but I was having all kinds of issues with the rifle shooting REALLY good one weekend with a given powder charge at nearly a 100* degrees during the summer and the SAME EXACT LOAD the next time out would lock the rifle up.. Weird huh. I mean, everything was exactly the same, or so I thought... I even weighed water fill and used that data in order to produce QL data. Sometimes it was on, others it was WAY off.. Again, nothing was really clicking in my little head. Well, today I think I found the culprit...

I had narrowed the charge down on previous range sessions to 66.5-67.1 Somewhere in there was my sweet spot for a powder charge, so I reshot today with the same 140 AB's I have been using for awhile. I am using Retumbo, CCI250's and Nosler Brass....

66.5 Retumbo (3102, 3091, 3118, 3109)

Nothing really out of the ordinary, but 1 of the cases has a different headstamp than the other three.. Different mark, on it. Tried taking a picture, but you'll have to trust me, the brass is different.

66.8 Retumbo (3162, 3185, 3251, 3124)

Okay, you can see that 3251 in the target. Again, three cases were the same and 1 was not. Different headstamping... All Nosler brass, but made differently

67.1 Retumbo (3180, 3175, 3252, 3248)

Now, on this one, there were two case with different headstamps and it showed HUGE in the chrono. Those ones that go into the 3250's have ejector marks and were all stiff to lift outta the chamber, not hard but really scratchy.

Anyhow, I have since throw out all of the NOT matching headstamped stuff. All of this is what has been giving me headaches. Just never dawned on me. So, just be careful when you mix two different lots of brass, even from the same maker. It could be enlightening. I probably should have picked up on this a year ago. I know the rifle shoots, and now that I have some good places to start, I will reshoot those loads in the same cases.. Should be able to finish up this load work for the AB's and load some of the new 140 BT's up for practice!

Here are the two different case heads. I am not really sure you will be able to tell the difference from the picture, but it is there.

 

[DrMike]

Yup! Mixing components will trip you up. I guess because Nosler is using different suppliers that we are witnessing some significant differences.

 

[SJB358]

Yup! Mixing components will trip you up. I guess because Nosler is using different suppliers that we are witnessing some significant differences.

Man, the worse part is I thought I was sticking with the "SAME" brass.... It is a little troubling to me. It is alot of money to invest in brass if they change it up like that. I do like the stuff and it is tough as nails, but I may do something different after this is used up.. I do have about a 100 pieces of the Nosler stuff though, so it might be a few years!

 

[DrMike]

I agree; I buy the same brass. However, if it is changed up on you, you have no way to avoid the damage, except to ensure that you always buy the same lot number. They you have to segregate the brass throughout its life.

 

[SJB358]

I agree; I buy the same brass. However, if it is changed up on you, you have no way to avoid the damage, except to ensure that you always buy the same lot number. They you have to segregate the brass throughout its life.

I would have to get really organized to be on top of that..

 

[bbearhntr]

Scotty I was just curious, was there a noticeable difference in the weight of the brass between the two lots?

 

[gerry]

Scotty the Nosler brass I have looks the same as the ones in your last picture and they weighed exactly the same as W-W brass I would be interested to know what the different lots weighed too. Good you got to the bottom of this.

 

[SJB358]

Scotty the Nosler brass I have looks the same as the ones in your last picture and they weighed exactly the same as W-W brass I would be interested to know what the different lots weighed too. Good you got to the bottom of this.

Okay, here you go. I measured 6 of the one and 6 of the other...

216.5, 216.3, 216.5, 216.1, 216.3, 216.9

238.0, 236.8, 239.8, 238.1, 240.4, 238.3

So, as you can see, there is a 20+ grain difference between the two. Pretty danged LARGE. Not sure what to do. I am not really mad, but I wonder if Nosler would like to explain the difference.

 

[bbearhntr]

Very interesting.....thanks for the info Scotty! It may save me some head scratching in the future. I probably will give more attention to the weight of ALL my brass from now on.

 

[SJB358]

Very interesting.....thanks for the info Scotty! It may save me some head scratching in the future. I probably will give more attention to the weight of ALL my brass from now on.

Same here buddy. That difference is pretty extreme when you are talking the charges used for a 264WM or even any of the RUM's running full steam loads that are getting the potential outta the cartridge/rifle.

 

[DrMike]

Your numbers are disturbing. We are dependent upon manufacturers to provide a consistent product in order to achieve the accuracy we seek. In the future, I'll be more likely to look more carefully at my brass when I discover errant loads.

 

[SJB358]

Your numbers are disturbing. We are dependent upon manufacturers to provide a consistent product in order to achieve the accuracy we seek. In the future, I'll be more likely to look more carefully at my brass when I discover errant loads.

I am with ya Mike. It has had me chasing my tail with this rifle for over a year. I NEVER thought to look at the brass as it was all Nosler... Makes me a little leery to buy more of it, although the stuff I have is good, tough brass, I don't wanna rework loads everytime I buy new brass..

 

[gerry]

Thanks Scotty, that is a big difference between them thankfully I have 300 W-W brass from the same lot. From now on I guess weighing new lots of brass is in order, never would have thought of that one either.

 

[DrMike]

I don't wanna rework loads everytime I buy new brass.

Actually, I do run a series of loads each time I change brass just to prove the load. There is enough variation that I want to ensure that it is giving me similar velocity and accuracy.

 

[Guest]

Scotty,
If I had that experience and had a 264 Win Mag I'd be tempted to try Winchester Brass.

Don

 

[SJB358]

Scotty,
If I had that experience and had a 264 Win Mag I'd be tempted to try Winchester Brass.

Don

I am close but I have a 100 Nosler cases.. That's alot of money to toss out. I am giving them a whirl write now, just finished loading the new 140 BT in them with Retumbo, with any luck, I may have some good data to share with you all after tomorrow.

 

[bbearhntr]

Scotty,
If I had that experience and had a 264 Win Mag I'd be tempted to try Winchester Brass.

Don

I dont know that I'd go from one extreme to the other.... The last bag of Winchester brass I bought varied by 10 grains in the same bag! At least your weights are very close within the same lot. I think that as soon as you segregate the lots you will have some very consistant performance. Can't wait to see your results Scotty!

 

[jmad_81]

Scotty, I may be having the same thing happening with my Nosler 243 win brass. Its eaither that or a hot lot of H1000. My go to load is 47.3 gr H1000 under a 105 Amax. Normally shoots .1-.3" groups at 100, and they are normally going 3030 fps with an ES of 10 fps. Last time at the range I shot that same load out of my varmit batch of brass (I have three different 50 count boxes of Nosler 243 brass, two usually loaded with 55 or 70 Bts for yotes, and one for my LR plinking loaded with the 105 A-Max). It was shooting around 1.5", doing 3200 fps and had an es over 50 fps :shock: So I have gone back to my LR box and loaded 46, 46.5, 47, and 47.3 gr of H1000. I was very suspicious of the H1000 as I have heard a bunch of rumors about hot lots (Saw the results of that first hand in the 338 Edge), but now you got me wondering about the brass :? I guess on the next calm day I'll find out for sure. I don't think I have shot the barrel out yet, and even if I had it wouldn't explain the 3200 fps (would it?).

 

[jmad_81]

Turns out it was the H1000. I dropped a grain and a half of powder and was still 60 fps to fast, and this was with the same lot of brass that gave me 3030 with 47.3 gr and .1-.3" groups.

 

[Oldtrader3]

That is a big difference for same manufacturer brass, Scotty, was that purchased at two different times with time distance in between or close together dates? The first sample looks much more uniform as well, given the small sample?

You have a digital scale, I believe? You may have to weigh and sort. Forty grains is enough to certainly see the difference even in those (cellphone?) pictures. Did you chrono these as well? Sometimes that will indicate high pressure.

I have some .340 Bee cases that are Nosler. I spot checked them and they were about the same weight as the Norma cases. I will look more closely now however since I have two boxes of cases.