Bought 200 new Winchester cases and did most of the prep work on them yesterday. Not too impressed with their quality control. I ran them thru the full length sizer, then got to measuring and inspecting them. Many were close to the max case length needed to be trimmed. Also, alot of them were not cut square at the case mouth, difference of .005 to .007 in some cases. I only had to discard two of them that I could not trim and get into specs but, I just thought this was alot of work to have to prepare new brass for its initial use? Sure, I am picky and want everything to be in spec and look new, am I being too critical here? I am fairly new to the reloading game and have not bought alot of new brass to date but it seems to me it would be pretty simple to at least get all your brass into spec before you package it? 22-250 by the way. Anyone have this same problem and, is that the case with anyone's brand of new brass?
Not impressed with Winchester brass
- Thread starter orion11
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I've always full-length resized new brass, then set up to trim it all down to minimum. I've never had a problem, but then again, I didn't measure out the necks to be sure they're square - I just assumed they were. I'm guessing the amount of 'unsquare' you found is not something readily apparent to the naked eye?
If you want better brass, you'll have to step up from Winchester/Remington to something like Nosler, Hornady, Lapua, or Norma. I have some Norma brass for my 270Wby, and it is phenomenally high quality stuff, right out of the box.
If you want better brass, you'll have to step up from Winchester/Remington to something like Nosler, Hornady, Lapua, or Norma. I have some Norma brass for my 270Wby, and it is phenomenally high quality stuff, right out of the box.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,900
- 7,795
+ 1 to what dubyam said.
Try some Nosler brass.
JD338
Try some Nosler brass.
JD338
A few weeks ago I had preped 100 new win 22-250 brass. I wasn't to discusted with them. I did see lots of variation in case lenght, but no more than I've seen in Rem. I was really unimpressed with my PMC brass - Some didn't trim the primer pockets with my RCBS pocket uniformer. When seating primers, I had several that fell out of the PMC - that stuff is now in the garbage.
I too always FL resize new brass. I found average runout of about .002 and some as high as .004, but that could have been my cheap RCBS dies. I have to admit that I was more impressed with the 300wsm win brass that I purchased.
I too always FL resize new brass. I found average runout of about .002 and some as high as .004, but that could have been my cheap RCBS dies. I have to admit that I was more impressed with the 300wsm win brass that I purchased.
- Thread starter
- #5
"Cheap RCBS dies"?. Again, I am pretty new to the sport but I did buy all RCBS equipment, Rock Chucker and alot of add ons. Are the RCBS dies not of good quality? Also, yes, many of the brass you could obviously see that the ends were not trimmed flat/even. With trimming I was able to get them all to the trim to length, except for a couple which wound up being undersize.
If there are higher quality dies than RCBS and, if that may be a problem for me down the road, I am willing to invest in some better quality ones. Opinions on that??
Thanks in advance
If there are higher quality dies than RCBS and, if that may be a problem for me down the road, I am willing to invest in some better quality ones. Opinions on that??
Thanks in advance
I have been switching to Redding lately. I had a set of RCBS 22-250 dies from 8 years ago and I just purchased a new rifle (used to just load for friends rifle). I was having very bad runout (.01") and noticed that the seater plug was not hitting the sides of the bullets rather it was contacting the tip. SO I tried the old method of drilling the plug out a little - mistake. I had a burr on the plug and I wanted to try out the Comp seating die anyway so I bought one. I like it, but realistically, I'm not sure it is worth the extra money for me.
Long story short - Redding dies are a little better than RCBS - smoother more exact machining and they are easier to adjust with your fingers. I wouldn't run to the store and buy a new set of Reddings to replace your RCBS, but if you can't get rid of runout and/or you are starting up on a new cal. I would definatley get Redding or Forster rather than RCBS.
I reccomend taking out the expander ball of the RCBS and using some fine fine sand paper to polish the plug up-- I was amaized at the machine marks on it yet. Just put the whole plug into a cordless driver and hold the expander ball w/ a piece of emery cloth (I used 600 grit).
Long story short - Redding dies are a little better than RCBS - smoother more exact machining and they are easier to adjust with your fingers. I wouldn't run to the store and buy a new set of Reddings to replace your RCBS, but if you can't get rid of runout and/or you are starting up on a new cal. I would definatley get Redding or Forster rather than RCBS.
I reccomend taking out the expander ball of the RCBS and using some fine fine sand paper to polish the plug up-- I was amaized at the machine marks on it yet. Just put the whole plug into a cordless driver and hold the expander ball w/ a piece of emery cloth (I used 600 grit).
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,655
- 5,427
That's pretty much normal procedure for brass. Buy it. Size it. Trim it.
There are more steps beyond that if you so desire. Paying more for Lapua, Norma, or Nosler brass is another alternative. I've never used Nosler brass - but I have used Lapua and Norma brass. It's good stuff. Federal tends to be a little soft by the way, otherwise it's fine too.
RCBS dies are fine and I use the heck out of 'em, but there are better dies avail that are more likely to produce more concentric ammo with less bullet runout. The Redding competition dies are excellent.
FWIW, Guy
There are more steps beyond that if you so desire. Paying more for Lapua, Norma, or Nosler brass is another alternative. I've never used Nosler brass - but I have used Lapua and Norma brass. It's good stuff. Federal tends to be a little soft by the way, otherwise it's fine too.
RCBS dies are fine and I use the heck out of 'em, but there are better dies avail that are more likely to produce more concentric ammo with less bullet runout. The Redding competition dies are excellent.
FWIW, Guy
coyotetrapper
Beginner
- Feb 9, 2007
- 178
- 0
I haven't hasd much problems with winchester brass, you get what you pay for and you can't expect 18.00 per 50 brass to come ready to load or close!
I only neck size new brass and fire form it, then when it get's sticky in the chamber I them FL size them.
I only neck size new brass and fire form it, then when it get's sticky in the chamber I them FL size them.
Antelope_Sniper
Handloader
- Jan 25, 2008
- 2,618
- 0
I usually shoot my new brass once, let the 60,000 psi of chamber pressure work out any crinkles, then size and trim, and weight sort.
alpinecrick
Beginner
- Apr 9, 2006
- 21
- 5
orion11":31g6xyfg said:
Yes. Well, unless you want to spring for Lapua or Norma brass--but I'm not sure 22-250 is available in Lapua.
Historically, WW brass tended to be better than R-P or Fed, but these days I think it has mostly to do with the particular batch.
Sizing, trimming, measuring neck wall thickness is pretty much SOP.
Casey
- Thread starter
- #12
Thank you all for the helpful information. Does someone have a link or a Readers Digest method of checking runout? I have had the odd "sticky in the chamber" round from lots I had loaded well below maximum, in fact, closer to the starting load, and was wondering if checking runout may eliminate another possibility of tight bolt closure? Not sure if there is a quick and dirty way to check this without some elaborate equipment.
- Thread starter
- #13
I forgot to mention in the above post that, up until now, I have only been neck sizing, due to that fact that I was using the same 200 brass I originally had when starting to reload. These have all been fired 4 times now so maybe it is time I full length sized these original brass again? I have trimmed at least most of the originals once already to get them into spec.. This is the first round of buying new brass for me, the originals were factory Winchester ammo I bought when I first got the 22-250.
C.Smith
Handloader
- Oct 11, 2006
- 1,411
- 0
I recently bought some 22-250 Winchester brass and was not really happy with it. Two out of the 50 I had to throw away, one had a split and the other one was .223 brass (I tried it but, it was just too loose in the chamber.......LOL, just kidding). I did have a .223 piece in with it.
As for accuracy it was okay, until I got the Nosler brass I was waitig for and with the same load and everything, I am getting a lot better accuracy now.But it is not cheap.
Corey
As for accuracy it was okay, until I got the Nosler brass I was waitig for and with the same load and everything, I am getting a lot better accuracy now.But it is not cheap.
Corey
coyotetrapper
Beginner
- Feb 9, 2007
- 178
- 0
orion, heck yes! If you have fired them 4 times and only neck sizing depending on load how hot it may be time to FL size them for sure! Set it up per directions on dies so you have minimal head space and then you will get less loading as the brass ages before you have to FL again, at .34 ea if I can get 6-7 loadings out of winchester brass then it cost .06 a fire and I can then pitch them and buy new!
Brass isn't bad at those cost!
Brass isn't bad at those cost!
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,184
- 2,822
dubyam":ou9euaq9 said:
Spot on. BTW I shoot more win brass than anything else. Never a problem.
I have and use Lapua and Nosler brass, but have been quite happy with Winchester over the years, and continue to use in in chamberings that Nosler and Lapua do not make. I have NO use for Federal brass, and Hornady brass is so similar to Winchester that I wonder if it doesn't come off the same machinery. Remington is so-so, but has reduced capacity in some chamberings, so one has to be careful. In my long range rifles I use exclusively Nosler or Lapua. Regards, Eagleye.
orion11,
You might need to bump the shoulder back rather than full length resize.
If you are experiencing a CRUSH FIT, screw your size die in a little bit and try chambering the brass in your rifle. Keep screwing the die in until you have a slight crush fit.
In other words bump the shoulder back a couple of thousandths. When you close the bolt you will feel a slight resistance.
You might need to bump the shoulder back rather than full length resize.
If you are experiencing a CRUSH FIT, screw your size die in a little bit and try chambering the brass in your rifle. Keep screwing the die in until you have a slight crush fit.
In other words bump the shoulder back a couple of thousandths. When you close the bolt you will feel a slight resistance.
