Over sized?

[wisconsinteacher]

I did a lot of reading today and think I know the issue with my 30-06. From what I read and understand, is when I annealed my brass and resized it, it moved too much because the brass was softer than before. When I FL sized, I used it at the same setting as when I sized brass that was not annealed. I think this issue has created too much headspace. Now my next question. I have 80 pieces of brass that may or may not be over sized. What would you do next? Try to fireform it and start over, shoot it in a different rifle, or toss it and get new brass?

I am going to shoot the rifle tomorrow with some Remington factory ammo just to make sure it is my reloads and not the rifle causing the issues.

 

[Guy Miner]

Good call on checking with the factory ammo. I've urged quite a few other handloaders to do the same time to time when they were having problems, not knowing if the rifle or the ammo was at fault.

I don't know how to salvage the other brass, IF it's the problem.

Is it all loaded? If not, perhaps you could load it lightly, with the bullet out far enough to engage the rifling... That should result in a properly sized piece of brass after it's been fired.

I've "jammed" bullets into the rifling before, on purpose. Just don't do it with anything that resembles a MAX level load as there is going to be a pressure increase...

Not sure I should have even brought up this potential solution.

Guy

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I just did some more looking, and read in my shooting log that so far I have fired 28 pieces of brass from the same group that I am having issues with and none of those fired with no problems. All the primers/powder/bullets are from the same lot. So the first 28 pieces worked but the last two times out I had 3 of 7 work????

None of the brass, I have is loaded right now, I have 88 pieces left over.

 

[300WSM]

Wisc,

What issue are you having exactly that you are going to try and shoot some factory stuff to determine if its ammo or rifle problem.

A quick question..what are you trying to accomplish by annealing your cases for a 30-06. If it is longevity the ODD SIX case if taken care of can result in a massive amount of firings without annealing.

If you are trying for more accuracy then that may be something you have already hit the limit on given the probable platform you are using.

 

[nvbroncrider]

That would make sense with your light primer strikes. Fire forming like Guy mentioned would solved that. I would grab a box of factory fodder and check the rifle too. If they all fire then you can measure the shoulder factory unfired then fired in your chamber and then you can measure your fired and sized brass. This should also verify what's happening.

 

[rick smith]

Really don't think annealing is the cause of the problem. Annealing softens the neck, unless over done, and not the shoulder. I use the same setting on my dies freshly annealed or not. I think your FL die is set incorrectly. You need to measure to the datum line on fired/sized brass compared to fired brass and that number needs to be correct and repeatable.
I don't set a FL or body die until the case gets snug to bolt closure. Measure to the datum line and size 1-2 thou. less than that. Try a couple in the rifle and go from there.Rick.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Thanks for all the help guys. I plan on shooting some factory ammo today and will report what I have done. I have the die set up so the brass allows the bolt to close with ease. I took fired brass that was difficult to close the bolt with and sized it so it would feed easy. I have not changed the lock nut since on the die. My biggest question, is why would the first 28 rounds from this batch of brass fire and then stop on number 29-36?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

As far as annealing, I did some reading on it this winter and started doing it with other rifles on a -10 degree day here and before you know it, all of my brass for my 30-06 was annealed. My reasoning was that some of the brass my have been fired more than others so I thought annealing it all would get it back to a closer tolerance with each other. I know I am getting more consistent neck tension with my annealed brass compared to some 22-250 brass that I did not anneal. When I seat a bullet in this brass, they all feel the same and I can seat with in +/-.001" with consistency.

 

[onesonek]

This is why when proceedure process change's, I work with smaller batches of brass until I get everything figured and set. Once I know 5 rounds chamber and extract, then I run the full batch.

 

[kraky]

These stories are exactly why I try and talk people into buying a $35 hornady head space measuring kit....you will not regret it.
In my experience w/annealing and using the measuring kit your softer brass would "probably" set back another. 003_.006" over and above working with harder brass in the same die....usually on the lower end of that range at that.

 

[BeeTee]

In all of the years I've loaded many thousands of rounds of ammo I've never felt a need to anneal brass. Once a few in a well-used batch begins to produce split necks, I retire the batch. I've got 10-12 loadings on an early batch of Win 223 cases that I bought with the rifle 20 years ago - no splits yet and the primer pockets are still tight.

Back in the day when I loaded a lot for a 300Wby, I got 10-12 loadings on a batch before the primer pockets became what I felt were too loose, and were retired. I don't remember any neck splits. For my Rem 700 7RM, I had a neck split recently on a nickel case that had been loaded just 4-5 times. It went into the trash, but not the whole batch.

Now, if I had a rifle chambered for a rare cartridge or is otherwise hard to find components for, I might be open to annealing to preserve the life of the few brass cases I had. Or, if I had a competitive target rifle that I'd carefully prepared a set of cases for, I might be open to annealing. Otherwise.... BT

 

[SJB358]

BeeTee, I anneal to keep the necks soft and keep bullet tension the same on each set I load for. I've just started really annealing everything but in my WSM's they will actually screech coming over the expander ball after just a few firings, so that is what got me started. I got away along time before I annealed, but I couldn't stop the screeching and annealing fixed that for me.

But your right, you can get alot of firings before you need to really do it. I do it now cause its easy and seems to help but it's not entirely necessary at all.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I hate to say it but you do not know what you have because you do not have a readout headspace gauge? You seem to keep getting yourself into a overthinking condition which ends up this way fairly often. No joke, get a gage and learn how to set headspace! No one can give you the right answer in this condition of things!

I am not trying to be critical, just practical. Please don't take offense.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Oldtrader3, no offense taken at all. I did buy a Hornday headspace gauge and measured the fired brass compared to the sized brass. When comparing the fired to unfired, there was .007" difference. I need to test a different lot of primers first and rule that out before I go crazy with sizing/headspace.

 

[rick smith]

Is the unfired brass factory new or have you resized them? You only need 0.001-0.002 difference between fired and resized brass, 0.007 is too much.Rick.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

It was fired brass that has been resized. I did not have the gauge before resizing. I did the place in chamber and see how the bolt would close/open.

 

[rick smith]

Now start backing the die out, size a piece of brass, measure it and try it in your rifle. Use a different piece of brass on each try.Rick.