Phony movies on Youtube.

[35 Whelen]

Not sure how many of you that shoot long have actually filmed long? In todays world of best of the west and gunwerks, everyone is wanting to believe, shooting a gopher at 700 yards in a 20kt full wind is no big deal at all, and that Deer at 1000yds is getting pretty oh hum, And that Moose and Elk at 13/1500 yds, is basically everyday stuff for 12 year old kids anymore.
It has become such a big money deal; that the advertising for the scopes and rifles , bullets used are getting pretty sloppy...... not to mention "wanta be" hunters with all their amateur movies.
As I watch alot of it, it becomes very obvious to me, exactly how phony some of the kill shots really are, the standard set up, by the pros, is usually the same, they have a super powerful lens and are watching an animal at some vast distance. They then push back, and show the viewer how far away it is. Impressive right. However this is where it gets sorta vague, as lots of times right after that that scene, it is spliced and you now see the animal only, and it is shot and a large percentage of the time , it is hit and then staggers around??? while they are still filming hoping it will fall down, of course at great distances the bullets are arriving at such reduced velocity that making one shot kills that are instantaneous are almost completely out of the question , With the commentary always the same "You got him, or he is down, or he is a dead animal, or great shot, something along those lines. So even though they hit him he is NOT down on a lot of the long distance footage, So it is actually not the case at all, the animals were still on their feet stumbling off wounded, in the last frame you saw, Next comes the big splice, and you are now over to the soposed area where said animal is piled up, and they zoom back in to the spot they originally shot from; and that proves behond reasonable doubt, they did it right??
Not really, what actually happened is probably quite different. Here is some footage of an Elk soposedly being killed at the distance of 550 yards, it is hit violently much more than the sorta impact, you would expect to see at 150 yards; Certainly not the impact you would expect at 550, Unfortunately, as long as you have NO reference to go by, the story is always is, it looks so close because the lens is so strong, and that is true. HOWEVER if you have a "reference in the same moment you shoot", it is then very obvious exactly how far it may, or may not be. Here is a great example, they shoot
The elk and then someone stands up into the lens , it then gives you a proper perspective of how far it actually is to
The animal ,see if you think its really 550 when the guy stands up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwhAGJYXX9c
?..? The animal is hit violently, and the hunter then asks his guide "is he down for good???" Dah, I guess so ??? They then reshow the scene, and splice out the reference in that next footage. Of course this all sells scopes, and bullets, and I understand that completely . It is fun to watch it all, and in this case the big magnum rifle hits a mighty blow, and is totally impressive by anyones standards, The bullet used, probably could be duplicated by many others, the scope used again probably had very little to do with this shot, and the gun, certainly didn't need to be blueprinted, or have a jewel trigger, to make this shot. And had the guy never stood up; into the footage, it would be very hard to prove the distance one way or the other, I think if you watch the footage after you see his shoulder and the bushes where the elk was standing at the same time; it becomes horribly obvious, the distance is vastly different than the caption suggests

 

[zacii]

The elk was hit in the vertebrae of the neck. It would have dropped like that even if it was hit by a .243

The guy standing in front of the lens is suspect, but I'm not a good judge of distance.

Sent from the edge of my galaxy

 

[possum]

After watching the video numerous times , I believe you are right about the distance Not Being 550. Using the person who stood up as a reference It would seem like about 150. Not to mention he almost missed that animal according to the vapor trail.

I once watched an episode of Best of The West, where they gut shot a mule deer at 293 yds, and cut from the wounded deer to the high fives and hooting. Then when they came back they had the dead deer. That was some of the most pathetic footage I have ever seen on a show.

 

[truck driver]

I watched it and would also say it was closer to 200yds than 550yds. I also believe it was a small bull since the cow that was bedded in the back round was considerably bigger and a good 25yds farther away.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

For what its worth.... People gut shoot plenty of deer at 100 yards too.

I'm not saying its something to be dismissed, its not... its a calculated risk when you take a shot at any range.

In my hunting career (over 30 years), I've botched one shot at close range, less than 25 yards.... And one at long range, about 800 yards.

The short range shot.... In a rush, didn't compensate for the scope height.

The long range shot.... That was the day I learned about powder temp sensitivity.... It is real.

I never did find the short range deer, he left the county in a hurry, hit....but not killed...I searched for him for a week, took off work and all... But lost the trail after only about 100 yards and never found it again.

I did get the long range deer... The first shot blew her front leg off at about the knee, but she didn't spook too bad and stopped after running just a few steps... I gave it a little more elevation and drove the next one right through both shoulders.

Neither mistake has happened again.

You want the real info on long range hunting.... Go to a forum called Long Range Only.

You won't find any fakers there, they don't last long on that forum.... And I don't think I've ever been around any group of hunters that hold ethics and safety in higher regards than those guys.... Some as good, but none better.

 

[possum]

There is always a chance of things going bad with shot placement. But these fellows were doing a show on long range gear with all of the bells and whistles and stating how easy it is and then BAM !! Gut shot and they still aired the show. Now if I was trying to sell all the Hype that these guys trying to push, I sure wouldn't be airing that on National television. JMHO

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Oh, I would air it.... But I'd own it...

We don't live in a perfect world.... Show the hits and the misses.

I've seen a lot of gut shots on hunting shows....lots....with archery equipment.

They usually don't admit it either.

 

[possum]

Exactly, show it all, but have some class and respect for the animal. That deer should have been shot again right then and there. Not start the high fives and hand shakes with the animal suffering.

 

[35 Whelen]

Your responses are interesting, as the numbers being throw out are very handy to what I would have guessed
It to be. With out his shoulder you could have said almost any distance... It's fun to kick it around anyway.

 

[possum]

What would you have guessed it at ?? It sure wasn't no 550

 

[JD338]

The bullet time of flight seems too fast for 550 yards.
My 338 RUM with a 250 gr AB at 2990 fps has a TOF of .652 second at 550 yards.
For a comparison, 200 yds TOF .212 second.

JD338

 

[35 Whelen]

Same as you did possum, it was something this side of 2, that's for sure......
And it doesn't really matter, it's just that they are taking ALOT for granted feelin that no one would ever know the difference....... I shoot at 550 almost everyday at a target so am very firmilar with that distance. An Elk at a true 550 yards, would likely look more around 1/2 of that size, from his shoulder to that animal, LoL. Jim that is an EXCELLENT observation as well.

 

[Wyo7200]

I go by the unspoken rule of distances on shooting forums. 90% of the time the target or animal is half the distance claimed to be.

 

[35 Whelen]

Here is another example of wounding the animals because of the loss of velocity over longer range distances, this footage as very cleaverly spliced; but again there has to be lots of power of suggestion, that the guys firing and the footage go togeather ????? Only thing worse than being gut shot is being gut shot twice. second deer :| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD9A-dvfFD0
Ditto on this one .............. he is down, and of course he is far from down. Zoom ahead to the 8 min mark as there is nothing worth watching before that, the footage is spliced again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RECnSuI2P0M
Here is my point ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Most guns are running out of steam, and don't have enough power to effectively kill anymore unless the shots are precisely placed, the facts are that most folks just cant call the wind close enough; to get it done correctly, Here is a great example of the guide trying his best; to help the client[make a shot he really isn't capable of making] who really knows nothing about this whole LR stuff, And is basically just doing what the guide tells him, smallish deer not sure why he would even wanted it ,the buck suffers for way to long; as they BS and talk about nothing................ https://youtu.be/_sj0W34yuQs

 

[longrangehunter]

I watched the video and using a stop watch came up with an average of roughly .225-.500 seconds as JD said, and the vapor trail does appear to hit the spine of the the Elk, or maybe high shoulder which would have the same effect? Questionable for sure not seeing the bullet hole on the animal? Which why not show it?

Either way, 550 yards isn't far considering that's still a midrange distance in most shooting disciplines, but is still far enough for mistakes to happen and why hunting vs. target shooting should be used with the utmost respect.

I don't agree with the hype shown on TV and Youtube that have the general public believing the average person should attempt these long range shots without a lot of practice. In fact I've often though the practices does an injustice to hunter success because of it, only because of the lack of effort most individuals won't put forth the time, money and investment to make sure 90% of the time they have the capability to produce success in those circumstances.

Whether or not the person in that video made that shot doesn't mean a lot, but showing that on the internet and having your average person assume, (which begins with the first three letters of A...), shouldn't just Assume they can pull that off, period.... which does rub me the wrong way!

I've done it numerous times. Have I seen the average person sling lead in the air and shake my head in disbelief, you bet'Yah!

Edited Note: Timed it again, and over and over again, tough to say for certain, but either way I see why it should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I agree, TOF was a good deal under 1/2 second, there are no 338's that I know of that have a 500 yard TOF of under 1/2 sec, just guessing it was 250-300 yards max.
RR

 

[Dr. Vette]

The bullet time of flight seems too fast for 550 yards.
My 338 RUM with a 250 gr AB at 2990 fps has a TOF of .652 second at 550 yards.
For a comparison, 200 yds TOF .212 second.

JD338

That's what I thought as well. I've watched a lot of these long range YouTube videos, and the time from shot to kill was way too short for 550 yards.

Poor shot placement too, if you ask me.

 

[sask boy]

Very interesting post gentleman, I guess that I am too trusting as I always try to take a person's word for it. I know that the cow elk I shot a couple of years ago was just over 500 yards at least according to my Leica 1600B.
My 35 Whelen spits out this 225gr. ABs at right around 2750fps. one thing I remember is hearing the smack quite sometime after the bang.
When the 4 of us brought out the Elk not one of the guys called me on distance and we all know each other well enough that someone would have made a crack of some sort :lol:.
It is too bad that they are falsifying the yardage :twisted:, as has been said alot of weekend warriors are going to try shots they are really not capable of making resulting in wounded animals.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Polaris]

I shoot a lot of high power and have a pretty good feel for time of flight at 200, 300 and 600 yards. Yes, the mv is a bit slower with a 75-80 gr 5.56 or 168 .308, but still relatively small proportionally in terms of TOF. At 600 there is a definate lag, that's usually when the wind decides to puff on my bullets. Saw it graphically one time when I nailed the spotter spindle. I've also watched a whole lot of vapor trails and mirage through a spotting scope. I'd put the distance at 2-300 yards.

With all the other gear these guys have, I'm sure a laser range finder is included in the kit. If they really wanted to prove the distance, a ranging pic of the elk would be helpful. Not there because it probably says 224 or somesuch.

 

[Elkman]

What I find amazing about these video's is the animals reaction to being hit, particularly those shot at a distance. Having shot and seen shot a number of elk I am amazed at the instant kills. When we get out past 600 yards the energy of most bullets has diminished substantially, yet their animals go down like they have been hit by a truck. I don't see that very often at all especially at longer ranges. My partners and I have killed at least a dozen elk in the last 4 years. All but one under 400 yards and only two hit the ground instantly. This has always been a mystery to me ?