Please read, click, then comment

[300WSM]

I value this forum and its posters more than most. Please click the link, read...then offer your thoughts...

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/gunsame ... t-freedom/

Although I find this opinion interesting, they have gone mad thinking that NEW guns can bring a 50 percent profit margin. Maybe a special run patriotic Cricket might bring a 50 percent margin or a Bersa Duo tone 380..but even then 50 percent is stretching it a bit. Moreoever they talk about having a MAP and there are some MFG's with MAP. The article is correct in the amount of MFG's that have MAP. It does fail to mention that the few companies with the MAP also have tough stocking dealer programs. They may be on to something here with the MAP or lack of it. There are few MFG's with MAP and the ones that do have a hard stocking dealer obstacle. Even with the MAP ...I won't mention a specific name but it has to do with a non-gas shotgun that can cycle every shotshell, low or high brass with no changes....even with that MAP they are giving the dealers 12-18 percent. In retail 12-18 percent is laughable. However 12-18 percent of 1,300 dollars is not too shabby in the year 2013.

On the subject of used guns all bets are off. The percentage of profit is different from one to the next. Everyone owns that used gun at a different level than the next. 50 percent although a stretch can be realized on the right used gun. I feel that this is the majority of internet sales. Folks looking to get something they can't find, new or used, rather than saving 6, 7, 5 percent sales tax.
Also, the notion of increasing the licensing by 20x is again another smack on the head because a lot of the mentioned brick and mortar stores would be gone along with the basement bandits. Unless they want Cabela's or Bass PRO or Dick's to make up 90 percent of the dealers an FFL fee hike is stupid top say the least.

I'm all for the retail stocking dealer/non-box store retail stocking dealer. Normally I would back something 100 percent to help the stocking dealer.
Right now is absolutely the WRONG time to even look at anything whatsoever like this.
Giving any politician anything right now when it comes to guns can be a HUGE problem.

Let me add that if the heart of the article is to help the stocking dealer then there are far greater ways to achieve this than going this route.

Discuss

 

[wayno945]

I think that position is going to lose them business.

 

[steve4102]

Sales tax is not a new tax. It is already something that you are supposed to be paying on internet purchases in most states, but almost nobody pays it.

This is key and something most Americans do not know or just ignore.

Years ago it would have been a bookkeeping nightmare and very expensive for Mail-Order catalog companies to collect sales tax from all 50 States then distribute these funds.

Now with Computers, software and electronic transfers it is as simple a pushing a button. This internet tax is not new, it just removes a line item on your State tax return and puts the burden on the seller to collect the tax at the time of purchase the same as your Local stores MUST do.

The tax has been in place for years, this just evens the playing field between the On-line seller, your local retailer and eliminates the ability of the American consumer to lie on their tax forms.

 

[Elkman]

Even though I read it, (and they repeated themselves several times) it was not exactly clear to me what they were supporting. Are we talking a Federal Tax ? We already pay, millions thru Pitman/Robertson ? If its for the states, how I'll the states with no sales tax collect theirs? Hopefully someone can condense this to a few salient points

 

[AzDak42]

Years ago it would have been a bookkeeping nightmare and very expensive for Mail-Order catalog companies to collect sales tax from all 50 States then distribute these funds.

Now with Computers, software and electronic transfers it is as simple a pushing a button. This internet tax is not new, it just removes a line item on your State tax return and puts the burden on the seller to collect the tax at the time of purchase the same as your Local stores MUST do.

Hold up there just a second....

While advocates of this bill talk about how computers can make this easier, very little is talked about what it takes to actually implement it. All state taxing authorities have different forms, different rules, different compliance guidelines. For the big guys, they have the bandwidth to make sure they remit on time, to the right place with the right forms. For the small guys, even with software, there is no standard. They still have to make sure all 50 are paid, on time with the correct documentation.

Now... state sales tax departments like to audit business like every other government authority. For locals, they send out an agent, review the sales materials and compare it to what was remitted when. How do we, without creating another federal monster program, create an audit? Does the local state take on the audit for the other states? Let's say I get in trouble with two states on the other side of the country because they goof up? How am I going to manage fighting their audit results from 2000 miles away?

It's just a mess... it's one of those that seems straight forward, but the devil is always in the details.

 

[steve4102]

It would have been less of a mess if people would have paid the State sales tax at tax time instead of ignoring the law and cheating. Now with computers and software, the cheaters will no longer be allowed to cheat.

As stated before, nothing new here, just an electronic way to force people to be honest.

 

[Hegland]

they have gone mad thinking that NEW guns can bring a 50 percent profit margin.

That may be, but I'll be darned if the clowns currently running Remington aren't trying to achieve exactly that! :shock:

 

[Hegland]

It struck me that the previous post may have come off a little snotty; not the intention at all to start anything about specific manufacturers. I'm actually kind of a Remington guy... But, here's an attempt at a more deliberate post.

Quote:
Sales tax is not a new tax. It is already something that you are supposed to be paying on internet purchases in most states, but almost nobody pays it.


This is key and something most Americans do not know or just ignore.

Agree. This goes back to the notion of "If we aren't enforcing the rules we have, more rules will be better." This concept escapes my grasp.

Secondly, the practicality of any proposed new rules or regulation is virtually assured to be overlooked when drafting a bill, so no matter how simple it should be, complexity will reign.

As far as the comment in the GA discussion on tarriffs, we've tried that before with pretty disastrous consequences. Not saying it wouldn't work at all, just that it's a tricky path.

 

[Guest]

Interesting.
My concerns are as follows:
How do you regulate this? Who checks that its done and done correctly and how?
Does checking or verifying create a new bureaucracy? What's that cost and at that point is it even cost effective?
No offense intended to any, but aren't they unintentionally regulating or determining who can be in business and how?
Taxes suck no matter how you justify them IMO . I realize some are a necessary evil.
I could go on but......
Dewey

 

[AzDak42]

Interesting.
My concerns are as follows:
How do you regulate this? Who checks that its done and done correctly and how?
Does checking or verifying create a new bureaucracy? What's that cost and at that point is it even cost effective?
No offense intended to any, but aren't they unintentionally regulating or determining who can be in business and how?
Taxes suck no matter how you justify them IMO . I realize some are a necessary evil.
I could go on but......
Dewey

As I said before, the devil is in the details. Are we going to see each state establishing a sales tax office in all of the other 50? Are they going to cooperate and create agreements to have each state audit on behalf of the others? This will be a big leap forward in regulation and government growth in any circumstance.

I'll say this at least, when it comes to taxes, I'd rather pay a straight forward sales tax than a mucked about with, special interest gerryrigged, badly implemented income tax. (And if you can't tell, I used to be a tax accountant... and it's left me with the belief that the greatest un-hanged scoundrels of our age are those political types that write our tax code..)

 

[runtohunt]

The prices for firearms that I find on the internet are not that much lower than the prices that I find at my local gun shops especially when you add on shipping. If they feel that they should be making a 50% profit margin, then they should go sale Cannondale bikes and see how many they sale a week (there is a reason there are only two or three employes working at any given time).
As for the brick and mortar stores going under, at least in my neck of the "woods," GunsAmerica should stop in at one of the older local gun shops. There business has been booming. The counters haven't been empty of people in the last 6-8 years. Even before Sandy hook, these folks have been very busy. As a matter of fact, there are at least six new shops that have sprung up over the last two years.

 

[Oldtrader3]

The Gross Margin on new guns is probably closer to 15% than it is to 50%. I worked at Oshman's (a large sporting goods chain store) part time in California for a couple of years when I was divorced and bored. It paid for my shooting hobbies at cost plus 10%. That store made 50% GM on tennis rackets and golf clubs but never on guns and ammunition. The GM for those was always on the order of 10-15%.

 

[DrMike]

Guns, ammunition and components don't have a great margin. Fishing tackle is much better for merchants.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I just hope that they are as good as the boxed Accubonds?

 

[300WSM]

Guns, ammunition and components don't have a great margin. Fishing tackle is much better for merchants.

yes this too. Fishing tackle (lures) have always been around 100 percent profit. It takes a lot of Rapala's to get a total GP that equal of one gun at 12 percent, but bigger stores...cough cough...northern tier states have no problem where fishing is a way of life.

Ammo is much better than guns for profit and components are even better yet as some items can fetch 100 percent profit, but the guns are the big ticket because of the dollars and cents.

The average profit on guns in the United States is 12 percent.

 

[efw]

Even though I read it, (and they repeated themselves several times) it was not exactly clear to me what they were supporting. Are we talking a Federal Tax ? We already pay, millions thru Pitman/Robertson ? If its for the states, how I'll the states with no sales tax collect theirs? Hopefully someone can condense this to a few salient points

+1

Thank you for admitting this; I wondered if I was dumb.

They lost me when they said they'd multiply the cost of transfer processing by 20. Stupid.