POP!

[Ridge_Runner]

would you mind running the 6.5 gibbs through quickload, looking for a 140 gr load with better case life.
I'm running an 8 twist barrel 29.5" case capacity is 74.6 gr H2o
thanks!
RR

 

[FOTIS]

would you mind running the 6.5 gibbs through quickload, looking for a 140 gr load with better case life.
I'm running an 8 twist barrel 29.5" case capacity is 74.6 gr H2o
thanks!
RR

keep in mind that SAAmi for the gibbs is listed at 49K or so

Cartridge : 6.5 Gibbs
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SP 2630
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch or 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 29.5 inch or 749.3 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 47745 psi, or 329 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

180 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
ADI AR 2218 98.3 65.6 4.25 2945 98.0 47745 11354 1.551 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 94.0 62.1 4.03 2923 97.5 47745 11043 1.578 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 100.0 64.7 4.19 2903 98.9 47745 10673 1.586 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 97.7 61.6 3.99 2894 100.0 47745 9681 1.567 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 100.4 67.1 4.35 2880 97.7 47745 10527 1.575 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 92.7 58.1 3.76 2864 99.8 47745 9903 1.592 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 90.5 56.5 3.66 2857 100.0 47745 9174 1.573 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 94.4 58.5 3.79 2847 99.8 47745 9448 1.557 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 70.8 4.59 2836 95.3 47745 10340 1.599 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 96.9 64.8 4.20 2824 92.4 47745 10093 1.570 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 13 103.9 66.6 4.31 2820 96.9 47745 9964 1.599 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon 50BMG 102.1 65.0 4.21 2818 88.6 47745 10280 1.582 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 67.3 4.36 2797 95.6 46479 9979 1.616 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 8700 105.0 67.4 4.37 2785 96.5 44638 9929 1.626 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 96.7 60.0 3.89 2775 96.1 47745 9449 1.603 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 90.8 53.9 3.49 2748 100.0 47745 8346 1.624 ! Near Maximum !
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 64.4 4.17 2599 75.5 39851 9051 1.700
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 64.4 4.17 2567 77.9 38060 8952 1.744
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 64.4 4.17 1843 37.6 20383 4508 2.306

 

[Ridge_Runner]

thanx POP, appreciate it. would it make any difference that my COAL is 3.510"
RR

 

[FOTIS]

Interesting...Lets see

Cartridge : 6.5 Gibbs
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SP 2630
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.515 inch or 89.28 mm
Barrel Length : 29.5 inch or 749.3 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 47745 psi, or 329 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

160 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 101.5 55.8 3.62 2855 95.8 47745 9998 1.531 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 105.0 58.3 3.78 2838 95.5 47708 10170 1.519 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 55.1 3.57 2827 100.0 47463 8944 1.528 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 100.2 52.3 3.39 2809 99.2 47745 9091 1.546 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 97.8 50.7 3.29 2806 100.0 47745 8463 1.530 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 95.8 53.2 3.45 2804 99.2 47745 8969 1.529 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 90.4 49.2 3.19 2804 99.9 47745 8807 1.542 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 95.7 53.3 3.45 2803 99.2 47745 8961 1.529 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 95.5 53.2 3.45 2803 99.3 47745 8944 1.530 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 91.9 49.0 3.17 2797 98.4 47745 9035 1.536 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 91.0 48.8 3.16 2788 98.7 47745 8769 1.524 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 96.2 48.8 3.16 2788 98.7 47745 8769 1.524 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 92.5 51.3 3.32 2787 97.3 47745 9103 1.547 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 92.1 48.6 3.15 2775 99.5 47745 8684 1.544 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 92.1 48.6 3.15 2775 99.5 47745 8684 1.544 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 92.1 48.6 3.15 2775 99.5 47745 8684 1.544 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 91.9 48.5 3.14 2775 98.6 47745 8697 1.522 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 94.5 48.8 3.16 2774 99.4 47745 8692 1.545 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 96.1 52.0 3.37 2771 99.0 47745 8622 1.523 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 101.1 52.2 3.38 2768 99.0 47745 8597 1.523 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 105.0 56.6 3.66 2749 96.3 43122 9501 1.608 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 93.3 48.3 3.13 2744 98.3 47745 8486 1.546 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 103.5 57.5 3.73 2727 89.3 47745 8904 1.538 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 91.4 48.2 3.12 2715 97.6 47745 8243 1.538 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 95.1 48.2 3.12 2715 97.6 47745 8243 1.538 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 58.3 3.78 2711 94.0 43380 9231 1.603 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 91.5 45.7 2.96 2708 100.0 47745 7739 1.565 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 103.6 53.4 3.46 2695 93.9 47745 8451 1.570 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 97.7 48.2 3.12 2688 100.0 47745 7672 1.589 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 94.2 48.6 3.15 2686 99.6 47745 7726 1.557 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 94.0 47.0 3.04 2669 98.4 47745 7723 1.550 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 55.6 3.60 2598 82.4 41279 8563 1.650
SNPE Vectan SP 13 105.0 56.0 3.63 2553 91.0 37822 8381 1.724
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 58.9 3.82 2511 87.2 35868 8454 1.765
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 56.0 3.63 2492 88.2 35516 8195 1.768
Accurate 8700 105.0 56.1 3.63 2470 88.8 34571 8157 1.776
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 2291 63.9 32723 6568 1.837
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 2270 68.3 30797 6860 1.884
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 1626 31.6 17034 3242 2.467

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I'm pretty much at a loss with this one, does real well till you break 3100 fps, then the cases are trashed with any powder you can think of.
Rocky Gibbs's data calls for a max velocity of 3125 with a 26" barrel, If I exceed 3100 from a 29.5" barrel the cases last 1 firing. guess I'm pushing it to hard for a cut rifled barrel. but dang it, it oughta shoot at least as fast as a 6.5/06 AI shouldn't it?
fired 2 rounds loaded with re25 today, 61 and 62 gr were the charges, behind a 140 berger.
The 61 gr load chronied 3087, primer was still round on the edges, thought it had potential, the 62 gr load was 3257 fps and trashed the pocket. tried WC 872 which is a mil surp powder that you use H-870 data for, well no way can I get 75 gr in a case. gonna try retumbo, prolly somethin ignorant like a tight spot in the bore or something.
RR

 

[FOTIS]

Again the program must go of SAAMI Specs unless you plug in different criteria :wink: .

Now of we theorize that brass and action are as strong a lets say a 25-06 looks what happens,,,,at 64K psi

THIS IS ONLY A THEORETICAL SIMULATION!!!



Cartridge : 6.5 Gibbs
Bullet : .264, 140, Hornady SP 2630
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.515 inch or 89.28 mm
Barrel Length : 29.5 inch or 749.3 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

140 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N560 100.5 53.6 3.47 3043 99.9 64000 9497 1.353 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 103.4 57.4 3.72 3037 100.0 64000 9189 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 103.2 57.5 3.72 3036 100.0 64000 9181 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 100.7 55.8 3.62 3035 99.6 64000 9611 1.361 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 103.1 57.4 3.72 3035 100.0 64000 9159 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 98.7 53.7 3.48 3034 100.0 64000 9080 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 99.4 53.2 3.45 3030 100.0 64000 9139 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 105.0 53.2 3.45 3029 100.0 63923 9138 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 100.4 53.0 3.43 3018 100.0 64000 9114 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 100.8 53.1 3.44 3012 100.0 64000 9023 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 100.8 53.1 3.44 3012 100.0 64000 9023 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 100.8 53.1 3.44 3012 100.0 64000 9023 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 103.5 53.4 3.46 3011 100.0 64000 9042 1.361 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 104.2 56.4 3.66 3008 100.0 64000 8882 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 105.0 54.5 3.53 2987 100.0 60750 8668 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 102.1 52.9 3.42 2985 99.9 64000 8922 1.361 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 97.4 50.5 3.27 2974 100.0 64000 8617 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 97.9 51.1 3.31 2972 100.0 64000 8659 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 105.0 57.7 3.74 2968 97.4 54173 10286 1.447
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 98.6 51.5 3.33 2965 100.0 64000 8595 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 93.3 48.4 3.14 2955 100.0 64000 8194 1.356 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 100.1 52.8 3.42 2955 99.7 64000 8741 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 104.1 52.8 3.42 2955 99.7 64000 8741 1.355 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 90.7 50.4 3.26 2954 100.0 64000 8298 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 96.0 50.1 3.25 2951 100.0 64000 8469 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 93.0 50.1 3.25 2951 100.0 64000 8469 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 96.0 50.1 3.25 2951 100.0 64000 8469 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 98.0 48.9 3.17 2942 100.0 64000 8446 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 105.0 54.8 3.55 2942 99.9 56343 9293 1.439 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 90.5 48.2 3.13 2932 100.0 64000 8091 1.375 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 100.8 50.4 3.26 2930 100.0 64000 8041 1.379 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 93.1 48.1 3.11 2929 100.0 64000 7972 1.372 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 93.2 48.1 3.11 2929 100.0 64000 7970 1.372 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 98.1 51.7 3.35 2928 100.0 64000 8192 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 97.0 49.9 3.23 2926 99.9 64000 8335 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 96.4 48.1 3.12 2923 100.0 64000 7906 1.390 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 94.8 49.2 3.19 2919 100.0 64000 7700 1.381 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 103.2 53.2 3.45 2910 100.0 64000 7995 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 103.5 51.7 3.35 2905 99.9 64000 8159 1.365 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 91.2 46.7 3.03 2894 100.0 64000 7897 1.370 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 105.0 54.2 3.51 2879 99.7 54567 8761 1.436
Rottweil R903 91.0 45.6 2.95 2866 100.0 64000 7381 1.392 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 105.0 51.8 3.36 2864 100.0 60486 7856 1.432 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2218 105.0 58.3 3.78 2838 95.5 47708 10170 1.519
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 55.1 3.57 2827 100.0 47463 8944 1.528
Vihtavuori N150 93.7 46.1 2.99 2816 100.0 64000 7015 1.389 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 90.4 45.3 2.94 2816 100.0 64000 6978 1.380 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 105.0 58.3 3.78 2775 90.3 50386 9059 1.501
Hodgdon H870 105.0 56.6 3.66 2749 96.3 43122 9501 1.608
Vihtavuori N170 105.0 54.2 3.51 2735 94.6 50045 8566 1.537
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 58.3 3.78 2711 94.0 43380 9231 1.603
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 55.6 3.60 2598 82.4 41279 8563 1.650
SNPE Vectan SP 13 105.0 56.0 3.63 2553 91.0 37822 8381 1.724
Vihtavuori 20N29 105.0 58.9 3.82 2511 87.2 35868 8454 1.765
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 105.0 56.0 3.63 2492 88.2 35516 8195 1.768
Accurate 8700 105.0 56.1 3.63 2470 88.8 34571 8157 1.776
NC A3502 ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 2291 63.9 32723 6568 1.837
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 2270 68.3 30797 6860 1.884
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 105.0 53.6 3.47 1626 31.6 17034 3242 2.467

 

[fjlee]

I'm pretty much at a loss with this one, does real well till you break 3100 fps, then the cases are trashed with any powder you can think of.
Rocky Gibbs's data calls for a max velocity of 3125 with a 26" barrel, RR

I've not owned nor loaded for a Gibbs cartridge. But I have been interested in the Gibbs stuff for a long long time. I have lots of printed material here about Rocky Gibbs and his 30-06 case based wildcats. I also have his book.

I have 2 "internal ballistics" software programs.......QUICKLOAD, and another one based upon the Powley Computer.

My software tells me that you should be able to get 3100 fps with reasonable pressure following the parameters that you gave.

Yes, you should be able to somewhat exceed Ackley Improved velocity. The Gibbs case has more water capacity.

In your opinion, are you experiencing a pressure problem, or a "case problem"?

The brass you're using is based upon what cartridge? 25/06....30/06....maybe something else? The brass has what headstamp? WW, REM, Norma.........??

You probably know the following "gotchas", but I'll repeat some of 'em.

Cases need trimming shorter, cuz of an anomoly in length of the Gibbs chambering job? Brass necks need reaming or outside turning, cuz of tight neck area of chamber, or flowing brass in the case neck? Make sure you're not jamming the bullet into the leade. Give it some clearance (seat bullet deeper) so it can get a "running start". Have you "slugged" the bore, to make sure the bore is not way too TIGHT? Have you miked the OD of the bullets? Are you sure the bullets are real close to 140 grains in wt? I wonder if your current batch of brass has some kinda issue? Bad material, work hardened, worn out...whatever else can make a batch or "lot" of cases cause probs...........

Lots and lots of people have discovered that Rocky Gibbs was very optimistic about his velocities. Some of his published stuff is not likely to happen with currently available powders. I would not be eager to try and duplicate some of his published velocities. But 30-06 brass fireformed to one of the Gibbs cartridges sure makes that staid old /06 case look mighty sexy!!!!

Lee in Denver CO

 

[Ridge_Runner]

I'm pretty much at a loss with this one, does real well till you break 3100 fps, then the cases are trashed with any powder you can think of.
Rocky Gibbs's data calls for a max velocity of 3125 with a 26" barrel, RR

I've not owned nor loaded for a Gibbs cartridge. But I have been interested in the Gibbs stuff for a long long time. I have lots of printed material here about Rocky Gibbs and his 30-06 case based wildcats. I also have his book.

I have 2 "internal ballistics" software programs.......QUICKLOAD, and another one based upon the Powley Computer.

My software tells me that you should be able to get 3100 fps with reasonable pressure following the parameters that you gave.

Yes, you should be able to somewhat exceed Ackley Improved velocity. The Gibbs case has more water capacity.

In your opinion, are you experiencing a pressure problem, or a "case problem"?

it is a pressure problem

The brass you're using is based upon what cartridge?
25/06....30/06....maybe something else? The brass has what headstamp? WW, REM, Norma.........??

its win headstamped 270 win brass

You probably know the following "gotchas", but I'll repeat some of 'em.

Cases need trimming shorter, cuz of an anomoly in length of the Gibbs chambering job? Brass necks need reaming or outside turning, cuz of tight neck area of chamber, or flowing brass in the case neck? Make sure you're not jamming the bullet into the leade. Give it some clearance (seat bullet deeper) so it can get a "running start".

Ya nailed it

Have you "slugged" the bore, to make sure the bore is not way too TIGHT? Have you miked the OD of the bullets? Are you sure the bullets are real close to 140 grains in wt? I wonder if your current batch of brass has some kinda issue? Bad material, work hardened, worn out...whatever else can make a batch or "lot" of cases cause probs...........

Lots and lots of people have discovered that Rocky Gibbs was very optimistic about his velocities. Some of his published stuff is not likely to happen with currently available powders. I would not be eager to try and duplicate some of his published velocities. But 30-06 brass fireformed to one of the Gibbs cartridges sure makes that staid old /06 case look mighty sexy!!!!

Lee in Denver CO

Just today I started thinking about seating depth , back when I had the throating done I instructed the smith to extend the throat .100" and set my seating die to reflect it, well my bullets were jammed and I backed them .020" off the lands and loaded up 61 gr of re25 behind the 140 berger, and fired the case, it clocked 3157 fps with no hint of pressure, I took the same case and loaded it with 60 gr of re22 and the 140, it clocked 3215, may try to bump the charge up .5 gr and call it good. If I can run them around 3250 with decent case life I'll be happy with it. thanks to all for your input.
RR