Quick Load Data for 338 Federal

[edh]

I was wondering if POP, or someone would run some data for me. I'm going to get a rare chance to do some load development for my 338 Federal this weekend. I'm curious as to how QL will compare.

225 grain AccuBond, 2.90 COAL, 22.5 inch barrel.

Varget
RL 15
H4895
Ramshot X-Terminator

Thanks,

Ed

 

[FOTIS]

I was wondering if POP, or someone would run some data for me. I'm going to get a rare chance to do some load development for my 338 Federal this weekend. I'm curious as to how QL will compare.

225 grain AccuBond, 2.90 COAL, 22.5 inch barrel.

Varget
RL 15
H4895
Ramshot X-Terminator

Thanks,

Ed

Cartridge : .338 Federal
Bullet : .338, 225, Nosler AccuBond 54357
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch or 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 34.40 1898 1800 29017 4969 87.8 1.599
-18.0 88 35.26 1943 1886 30889 5128 89.0 1.556
-16.0 90 36.12 1988 1975 32882 5284 90.1 1.514
-14.0 92 36.98 2034 2066 35009 5436 91.1 1.473
-12.0 94 37.84 2079 2160 37276 5584 92.1 1.433
-10.0 96 38.70 2124 2255 39698 5728 93.1 1.393
-08.0 99 39.56 2170 2352 42282 5866 93.9 1.355
-06.0 101 40.42 2215 2452 45046 6000 94.8 1.317
-04.0 103 41.28 2261 2554 48004 6127 95.5 1.281
-02.0 105 42.14 2306 2658 51169 6248 96.3 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 43.00 2352 2764 54569 6362 96.9 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 43.86 2397 2871 58217 6469 97.5 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 111 44.72 2443 2981 62135 6569 98.0 1.149 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 113 45.58 2488 3093 66328 6660 98.5 1.118 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 46.44 2534 3207 70839 6742 98.9 1.089 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 47.30 2579 3323 75706 6816 99.3 1.060 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 43.00 2457 3016 64639 6313 99.8 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 43.00 2214 2449 45063 6129 90.6 1.315



Cartridge : .338 Federal
Bullet : .338, 225, Nosler AccuBond 54357
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch or 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4895

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 34.40 1915 1832 28590 5029 92.4 1.597
-18.0 88 35.26 1960 1918 30421 5176 93.4 1.554
-16.0 90 36.12 2004 2007 32363 5317 94.4 1.512
-14.0 92 36.98 2049 2098 34443 5453 95.3 1.472
-12.0 94 37.84 2094 2190 36653 5582 96.1 1.432
-10.0 96 38.70 2138 2284 39009 5705 96.8 1.393
-08.0 99 39.56 2183 2380 41524 5820 97.5 1.355
-06.0 101 40.42 2227 2478 44210 5928 98.1 1.318
-04.0 103 41.28 2271 2577 47080 6028 98.6 1.282
-02.0 105 42.14 2315 2678 50151 6119 99.0 1.248
+00.0 107 43.00 2359 2780 53441 6201 99.4 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 43.86 2403 2884 56968 6274 99.6 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 111 44.72 2446 2989 60754 6338 99.8 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 113 45.58 2489 3096 64824 6391 100.0 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 46.44 2532 3203 69207 6434 100.0 1.092 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 47.30 2575 3312 73932 6470 100.0 1.064 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 43.00 2451 3002 63848 5950 100.0 1.136 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 43.00 2227 2478 44082 6158 94.7 1.317



Cartridge : .338 Federal
Bullet : .338, 225, Nosler AccuBond 54357
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch or 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 83 34.40 1893 1790 27231 5144 87.1 1.636
-18.0 85 35.26 1939 1879 29021 5311 88.3 1.592
-16.0 87 36.12 1986 1970 30935 5475 89.5 1.550
-14.0 89 36.98 2032 2063 32979 5634 90.6 1.509
-12.0 91 37.84 2079 2159 35166 5789 91.6 1.469
-10.0 93 38.70 2125 2257 37505 5939 92.6 1.430
-08.0 95 39.56 2172 2357 39988 6084 93.6 1.389
-06.0 97 40.42 2219 2459 42623 6222 94.5 1.350
-04.0 99 41.28 2265 2564 45435 6354 95.3 1.312
-02.0 102 42.14 2312 2670 48446 6480 96.0 1.275
+00.0 104 43.00 2358 2779 51670 6597 96.7 1.240 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 43.86 2405 2889 55127 6707 97.4 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 108 44.72 2451 3002 58837 6808 97.9 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 110 45.58 2498 3117 62824 6900 98.4 1.141 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 112 46.44 2544 3233 67114 6983 98.8 1.110 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 114 47.30 2590 3352 71736 7056 99.2 1.081 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 43.00 2473 3056 62257 6525 99.8 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 43.00 2207 2434 41579 6348 89.9 1.356



Cartridge : .338 Federal
Bullet : .338, 225, Nosler AccuBond 54357
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.900 inch or 73.66 mm
Barrel Length : 22.5 inch or 571.5 mm
Powder : Ramshot X-Terminator

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 74 32.00 1947 1894 30547 5007 96.3 1.565
-18.0 76 32.80 1990 1978 32430 5130 97.0 1.528
-16.0 78 33.60 2032 2063 34423 5248 97.7 1.492
-14.0 80 34.40 2074 2149 36532 5359 98.2 1.457
-12.0 82 35.20 2116 2236 38763 5464 98.7 1.420
-10.0 84 36.00 2157 2325 41124 5562 99.1 1.382
-08.0 86 36.80 2198 2414 43623 5652 99.4 1.347
-06.0 88 37.60 2239 2504 46268 5735 99.7 1.312
-04.0 89 38.40 2279 2595 49068 5811 99.9 1.279
-02.0 91 39.20 2319 2687 52033 5878 100.0 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 93 40.00 2359 2780 55176 5938 100.0 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 95 40.80 2398 2873 58507 5992 100.0 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 97 41.60 2437 2966 62042 6046 100.0 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 99 42.40 2475 3061 65793 6097 100.0 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 101 43.20 2513 3156 69779 6148 100.0 1.104 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 102 44.00 2551 3252 74016 6196 100.0 1.078 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 40.00 2432 2955 65190 5688 100.0 1.143 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 40.00 2248 2525 45391 6081 97.8 1.315

 

[edh]

Thanks, POP!

All but the X-Terminator run pretty close to the published data I have. I'll post the results.

Ed

 

[edh]

OK, I made it to the range on Sunday and tested the four powders mentioned above.

338 Federal, 22.5" barrel, 225 AB, Federal 210, Federal case

Pressure based on pressure ring expansion of factory 200 gr. Fusion loads. 2660 fps per factory, 2590 fps actual.

H4895: QL nailed this one as far as I can see. Max published is 45.3 with a 225 gr. Swift A-Frame Case expansion slightly greater than factory (.0004") at 45.0 grains.

+00.0 107 43.00 2359 2780 53441 6201 99.4 1.214 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 43.86 2403 2884 56968 6274 99.6 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 111 44.72 2446 2989 60754 6338 99.8 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE! (? SAMMI max average is 62000 psi.)

43.0 2373 fps
44.0 2430 fps
45.0 2453 fps


Varget: QL not so close on this one. Case expansion was equal to factory at 45.0 grains. Published max: 44.5-46.0 grains. 46 grains should equal expansion of 45.0 H4895.

+00.0 107 43.00 2352 2764 54569 6362 96.9 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 109 43.86 2397 2871 58217 6469 97.5 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 111 44.72 2443 2981 62135 6569 98.0 1.149 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

43.0 2290 fps
44.0 2317 fps
45.0 2387 fps


RL15: Very disappointing. Under-performed both QL and published data. Case expansion less than factory at 45.0 grains (-.0003") Published max 45.0 grains (Nosler).

+00.0 104 43.00 2358 2779 51670 6597 96.7 1.240 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 106 43.86 2405 2889 55127 6707 97.4 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 108 44.72 2451 3068 58837 6808 97.9 1.173 ! Near Maximum !

43.0 2210 fps
44.0 2268 fps
45.0 2285 fps


Ramshot X-Terminator: Met velocity of published max, but over pressure. I'm going to give the nod to QL on this one. In my rifle, QL was probably closer than the published data. 43.1 gr max per Ramshot, exact combination of components used here.

+02.0 95 40.80 2398 2873 58507 5992 100.0 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 97 41.60 2437 2966 62042 6046 100.0 1.158 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 99 42.40 2475 3061 65793 6097 100.0 1.131 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 101 43.20 2513 3156 69779 6148 100.0 1.104 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

41.1 2349 fps same expansion as 45.0 H4895
42.1 2359 fps flat primer
43.1 2423 fps very flat primer


There you have it. QL can be very good, nothing beats shooting the load in your rifle, and always back off at least 5% over maximum for starting loads.

Next step is to work with 45.0-46.0 of Varget and 43.5-45.0 of H4895 for accuracy. My goal was a minimum of 2400 fps with the 225 AB. That makes a great elk load out of that wimpy 308 case.

Ed

 

[Wally]

Ed,

Thanks for posting your results. I'm getting ready to do some load work for this cartridge later this spring. I also intend to use it for elk hunting. I was thinking about starting with the 210 Partition, but have been very interested in the 225 as well. Good job.

Steve

 

[FOTIS]

Glad you got out with the gun!

 

[edh]

Steve, what gun are you going to be loading for? If not a Sako/Tikka, what barrel length?

With a 22-24" barrel these are the velocities that you can expect:

200 AB 2600-2650 fps
210 PT 2500-2550 fps
225 AB 2400-2450 fps

On paper the 210 is the worst for retained energy, same drop as the 225. The 225 AB delivers about 11% greater energy and only an inch greater drop at 300 yards compared to the 200 AB.

I'm sure an elk won't know the difference between any of them.

A short magazine/throat may be a problem with the 225. Compression may be a bit more than you're comfortable with, but still "moderate". My Sako has a long throat and generous magazine. I can load 0.10" longer than SAMMI, so my 225 load compression is the same as a 200 loaded to SAMMI maximum OAL. You'll want to use a funnel with a long drop tube. 45 grains of powder with a 5" drop fills the case to the bottom of the neck.

The data in the Nosler #6 looks to be right on for the 210 PT. There's another 100 fps to be had with the 200 AB. 47 grains of H4895 behind the 200 AB gave me 2625 fps with case expansion equal to the 210 PT factory load (2630 advertised, 2518 fps actual).

Ed

 

[Wally]

Ed,

I'm going to be loading for a Tikka.

The only reason I'm going to be starting with 210 partitions, is because I happen to have about 250 seconds on hand.

I really appreciate your observations about the other 2 bullets compared to the 210. If the 210's don't work out, I will keep your comments in mind, and try the 200 or 225 AB next. I will also keep the load suggestions in mind as well. In fact, I'm going to copy this thread, and stick it in my loading journal for future reference.

Thanks again! :wink:

Steve

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Edh, Have you loaded the 180's yet?
I don't have a .338 fed yet, but am considering one.

 

[FOTIS]

I truly belive if you buy a 338 go heavy with the bullet. That is when it shines. :wink:

 

[edh]

I don't have any plans of trying the 180 grain bullets. I got the 338 to pick up where my 7mm-08 tops out. I'm going to concentrate on the 225 AB and if the Sako doesn't like them, I will go back and revisit the 200 AB and then the 210 PT.

Here's the Hornady Index of Terminal Standards numbers as calculated here (have fun!):

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/hits_calculator.php

The numbers are calculated based on impact velocity at 100 yards, not the MV shown below.

140 @ 2900 - 938 (7mm-08)
180 @ 2700 - 994
200 @ 2625 - 1204
210 @ 2525 - 1274
225 @ 2450 - 1450

Big Bullets Rule!

Ed

 

[Wally]

Ed,

That's an interesting comparison on the bullets weights with the Hornady Terminal Index. I really shows the heavier bullets to the advantage.

Do you have any plans to try Ramshot TAC? I hear from a reliable source that it does very well in the 338 Federal.

Steve

 

[edh]

I don't have any plans to try TAC at the moment.

Their data showed X-Terminator giving higher velocities and lower pressures than TAC. That made me go Hmmmmm.... X-Terminator is a pretty fast powder for that application. I even called them to confirm the loads and the use of 215 primers in the 338 Federal. Turns out I was right. I also didn't get the expected results with Big Game in my 7mm-08. So, Ramshot is off my short list. So is the Reloader line. I got burned on RL 19 in my 7mm-08 and now with the RL 15 in the 338. I've always gotten expected results with Hodgdon and Winchester powders, so I'm going to concentrate on the Hodgdon Extreme line from here on out.

That said, TAC probably is a better choice than X-Terminator. Another choice that looks good, at least for accuracy is VV N135. The current issue of Shooting Times has an article on the 338 Federal and 45 grains of VV N135 behind a 200 grain Speer is the Sako development guy's favorite load (no velocity data given).

Ed