Quickload projected pressure?

[preacher]

Question for you QL users ( I suspect you can also read the future from looking into a pot of molten lead too! In my 35 Whelen Ackley I get 2424fps average with the Woodleigh 310sn. I use 55gr R15 in Remington cases, BR2 primer. 3.30 " COAL. 22" Remington factory barrel, 1 in 16" twist. I get super easy extraction, primers are barely flattened and cases last a long time. I also get super accuracy and shot one hog at 30yds or so, bullet hit point on. So...would one of you guys plug this info in and get me a "ball park" pressure reading? It will be close enough for me as I like the load, but I am "guessing" I am at least top .270 pressure. Help please? :?:

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 310, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 54
Useable Case Capaci: 63.387 grain H2O = 4.116 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-20.0   75    44.00   1930    2564   32335   6152     96.5    1.732
-18.0   77    45.10   1972    2678   34333   6304     97.2    1.687
-16.0   79    46.20   2015    2794   36444   6449     97.8    1.643
-14.0   81    47.30   2057    2912   38675   6586     98.4    1.600
-12.0   83    48.40   2098    3031   41032   6715     98.8    1.556
-10.0   85    49.50   2140    3152   43522   6835     99.2    1.515
-08.0   87    50.60   2181    3274   46153   6946     99.5    1.474
-06.0   88    51.70   2222    3397   48934   7049     99.7    1.436
-04.0   90    52.80   2262    3522   51874   7141     99.9    1.399  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   92    53.90   2302    3647   54984   7224    100.0    1.363  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   94    55.00   2341    3774   58274   7297    100.0    1.329  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   96    56.10   2381    3901   61756   7367    100.0    1.296  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0   98    57.20   2419    4030   65445   7436    100.0    1.264  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  100    58.30   2458    4159   69355   7502    100.0    1.234  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0  102    59.40   2496    4289   73502   7567    100.0    1.204  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0  104    60.50   2534    4421   77903   7630    100.0    1.175  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     94    55.00   2414    4011   68680   7002    100.0    1.247  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     94    55.00   2232    3428   48023   7482     98.0    1.440

 

[jimbires]

this is rated at 58015 PSI your at 60142 PSI .



Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 310, Woodleigh SN WeldCore 54
Useable Case Capaci: 62.376 grain H2O = 4.050 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.300 inch = 83.82 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 77 44.00 1901 2488 33110 6773 96.0 1.629
-18.0 78 45.10 1944 2601 35181 6946 96.8 1.585
-16.0 80 46.20 1986 2716 37371 7112 97.4 1.544
-14.0 82 47.30 2029 2833 39688 7269 98.0 1.501
-12.0 84 48.40 2071 2952 42138 7417 98.5 1.459
-10.0 86 49.50 2112 3072 44729 7556 99.0 1.419
-08.0 88 50.60 2154 3193 47471 7685 99.3 1.381
-06.0 90 51.70 2195 3316 50372 7804 99.6 1.344 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 92 52.80 2236 3441 53444 7912 99.8 1.308 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 94 53.90 2276 3566 56696 8010 99.9 1.274 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 96 55.00 2316 3693 60142 8096 100.0 1.241 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 98 56.10 2356 3821 63796 8173 100.0 1.210 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 99 57.20 2395 3950 67672 8248 100.0 1.179 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 101 58.30 2434 4080 71787 8321 100.0 1.150 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 103 59.40 2473 4211 76158 8392 100.0 1.121 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 105 60.50 2512 4343 80808 8461 100.0 1.094 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 96 55.00 2391 3934 70924 7768 100.0 1.163 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 96 55.00 2204 3345 49521 8257 97.6 1.347 ! Near Maximum !

 

[preacher]

Thanks Jimbo! Still under 62K...I LIKE IT! ha. That gives me a real good idea where the rest of my loads are falling. I can get faster velocities with everything I've tried in 3 different rifles in Whelen Improved, but I get the best accuracy and case life ( meaning primer pockets stay tight, the only "eyeballing sign" I've ever seen in an Ackley.) I was really surprised this 310 even shot well in this 1 in 16, so am really happy with the load. I have seen several factory 375 H&H 300gr loads that only advertise them at 2400fps! Since I'm never gonna shoot cape buffalo or elephant with it, I'm satisfied with it as my woods load. What a thumper! Thanks again pardner. Jim Knight

 

[Dwh7271]

Man that 310 has to be a hammer. Cool bullet choice.

 

[preacher]

You bet it is, my little 200# Eurasian sow made it all of about 20ft in her death run! I purposely made a lung shot, just missing the shoulder bones. It made a 40 cal entrance and about .75 caliber exit, blew tissue for 30ft it seemed out the other side! I really do need to shoot it out to 200yds to see if its still stabilized. I can flat wad them in a big hole at 100 though! I was just flabbergasted it worked at all in that slower twist! I know that in a slower twist speed is your friend, so the 2400fps range surprised me too. I think a standard Whelen in a 24" barrel could approximate it, but then no way to tell what another rifle will do pressure wise, huh? I am supposed to hunt hogs in MO this Fall with my buddy and his kids, so I will use it again. Nice thing in my rifle, when I'm zeroed +3" at 100 with my 200 TTSX I'm spot on at 100 with this 310 and an inch left! Sheboygin.

 

[preacher]

Here's another...same everything but 61gr R15 and the Nosler 250 ( it also works with the Speer 250) I get some fantastic velocity with both! I'm sure its pretty high pressure, but again, super accurate and easy to extract, primers are flatter of course, but pockets still tight. How hot does the Lead Pot (QL) predict?

 

[jimbires]

I used the Partition . it's a little hotter 64658 PSI



Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 250, Nosler PART SP 44801
Useable Case Capaci: 64.459 grain H2O = 4.185 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.300 inch = 83.82 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-15

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 82 48.80 2149 2564 34077 7242 93.4 1.447
-18.0 84 50.02 2200 2687 36341 7445 94.4 1.408
-16.0 86 51.24 2251 2813 38750 7639 95.3 1.366
-14.0 88 52.46 2302 2941 41315 7825 96.1 1.325
-12.0 90 53.68 2352 3072 44045 8002 96.8 1.287
-10.0 92 54.90 2403 3204 46953 8168 97.5 1.249
-08.0 94 56.12 2453 3340 50052 8324 98.1 1.213 ! Near Maximum !
-06.0 97 57.34 2503 3477 53355 8468 98.6 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
-04.0 99 58.56 2552 3617 56879 8601 99.1 1.146 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 101 59.78 2602 3758 60640 8720 99.4 1.114 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 103 61.00 2651 3902 64658 8827 99.7 1.083 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 105 62.22 2700 4047 68955 8920 99.9 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 107 63.44 2749 4194 73555 8999 100.0 1.024 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 109 64.66 2797 4342 78485 9063 100.0 0.997 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 111 65.88 2845 4492 83776 9121 100.0 0.970 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 113 67.10 2892 4644 89462 9175 100.0 0.944 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 61.00 2749 4195 76819 8471 100.0 1.011 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 61.00 2509 3495 52796 8836 95.8 1.179 ! Near Maximum !

 

[preacher]

Thanks Jim...I knew they were hotter. Best to use it (if I use it) with new, fireformed cases for hunting. I don't mind hot loads, never have. My smith spoke with Weatherby reps once at the Shot Show in Vegas. They said they loaded their Weatherby factory ammo to around 70K! They wanted it "one and done", wanted to sell ammo, not make it easy on handloaders, ha. BTW, these two loads clock "over" 2700fps! wow. :shock:

 

[preacher]

I really don't see any "danger" from staying a tad under 65K! heck, the .270 Winchester is rated right at 65K. I know its controversial, but I too believe the Ackleys cling to the chamber better than any tapered case and they create less bolt thrust. To me, as long as my primer pockets are tight and the brass is in good shape I am not in the least worried about it. However, at 63, since I have my three favorite loads ( the 250X @2600fps ( I used them in Africa, still have a box left and 10rds or loaded ammo!) with 53.5 gr AA2015/the 200X or TTSX with 58gr H322@2950-2970fps/ and my 310 with the 55gr R15@2424fps) I may never use either of these 61gr/250gr@2730-2750fps loads on an animal, ha. "Time, Oh time...where did you go?"

 

[SJB358]

So this is just me looking at the data but it looks like in order to get the 2424 Jim is getting the PSI is around 70-72K. I'm not really looking at the charge just the speed and PSI.

Am I missing something?

 

[preacher]

This particular rifle is a "fast" one Scotty, faster than my SILs 35 WAI too. I have checked my chrono several times, with a known .22 mag load & rifle. I think the slower twist helps not only speed but keeps the pressure down a tad. AND...I could be all wrong and this puppy is breathing fire, ha!

 

[truck driver]

Scotty; I think he is also using a Remington 700 factory barrel that the chamber was reamed out to 35 WAI so the long throat is still intact.
I have only seen pressure in my 35 WAI once when I had a QL run for the wrong bullet. You can't interchange the 200gr Hornady round nose with the 200gr Hornady Spire point because you will enlarge primer pockets very quickly and the primers will fall out when you eject the spent round.
Also when I was waiting to get my 35 WAI back from JES Preacher sent me some fresh fire formed brass he had formed in his chamber and after sizing them they wouldn't fit my chamber.
He uses fire formed 30-06 brass and I use virgin 35 Whelen brass fire formed.

 

[preacher]

You are spot on TD! My rifle is a rechambered Mod 700 Classic 35 Whelen to the Ackley. It does indeed have that long Remington throat and that slower twist. I only use reformed 30-06 brass for mild loads. I have always used fireformed, virgin Remington 35 Whelen cases for my hunting loads and the above mentioned loads. I know its not "quite" apples to apples, but I got to thinking about Scottys question about that 310 at 2424. So I did some brainstorming while the wife was watching the Billboard Awards awhile ago ( I am now "officially an Old Fart" as that was some of the sorriest, falsetto girly men and deva babes singing! ha) Anyhow, I looked at an older Barnes manual. Their standard 35 Whelen with the 250X ( which should give more pressure than the 250 Nosler or Speer) shows 57gr of R15 Max. My load for the 250 in this Improved is 61gr. That's only 4 more grains...in fact, its only a 7% increase in capacity and I am getting 2750 "from my rifle". Sheboygin! Now, a 7% increase in a long throated, slow twist Whelen ( and probably like Roger said, a chamber on the outside edge of large dimensions; a brand new reamer was used, I know cause I bought it, ha.) doesn't seem "to me" could reach 65K, let alone 70K+! You guys help me out here....tight primer pockets, good case life, sub MOA....but am I "riding the ragged edge? I also checked my 200X load of 58gr H322 ( book max for a standard Whelen BTW!) yet I am getting 2970fps. I zeroed +3@100, I'm down -3.5"@300....runs right along Barnes listed velocity/BC for 3000fps according to their chart. I'm right there. having nothing to compare my 310 to I am still waiting to try it out to 200 and see what kind of drop I get. I would hate to have to buy a Magneto Speed or something just to "see" if my velocities are different than my Chrony Beta, ha. I really don't care that much about the speed, its the accuracy and good case life I'm always after. But gosh, not by you guys, but "others" have almost called me a liar about this as they just can't believe my reported speeds. Oh well, I still "love them with the love of the Lord", ha. It makes me wonder IF I reported my speeds at 100fps "slower" would I still be held in contempt? Would "pressure" somehow be any less? Any thoughts? All are welcomed. I "feel" better about using the 55gr/R15/310 load than either of the 250 PT or Speer/61gr/R15 load...not so much I'm afraid of it, but I don't see the advantage of pushing my rifle that hard...not when the old 250X/53.gr/2015 @2600 did so well. I'm sure either PT or Speer will work the same way at 2600...thinking of trying to replicate it....any thoughts?

 

[preacher]

I just want to add that I have never intended nor ever set out to try and make this AI into a baby 358 Norma mag, ha. It runs so close to a 338 winmag in the field as it is that I treat them the same...same range same angle of shot. BUT...I feel better about trying to get a 338 winmag up into the 2700's with the 250 ( actually, I love and prefer both the 340W and the 338 RUM for 2800-2900) with a 338 Win Mag. I never felt "undergunned" with my Whelen/250X...even around Hippo.

 

[muleman]

So this is just me looking at the data but it looks like in order to get the 2424 Jim is getting the PSI is around 70-72K. I'm not really looking at the charge just the speed and PSI.

Am I missing something?

I agree with Scotty on this one. Speed = Pressure. A long thoat can give you some leeway but the improved cartridges are slower at showing pressure than the standard cartridges. QL is not an absolute solution. It must be tweaked to your actual data(adjusting burn rates to equate your powder charge to your speed etc.). You also need to use actual case displacement vs. standardized entry to fine tune the accuracy of QL. My Ackley improved cartridges often don't start showing pressure until or near 70Kpsi. Just my experiences with QL and Ackleys.

Scott

 

[preacher]

I hear ya Muley! Whenever I get a stiff bolt from this 35 WAI...I "know" I'm in dangerous territory, ha I am going to "abandon" this load...good as it is so far...and back my 250's down to 2600-2650 with milder charges. After all, My Whelen AI just doesn't "need" anymore speed to shoot through just about everything!

 

[SJB358]

I hear ya Muley! Whenever I get a stiff bolt from this 35 WAI...I "know" I'm in dangerous territory, ha I am going to "abandon" this load...good as it is so far...and back my 250's down to 2600-2650 with milder charges. After all, My Whelen AI just doesn't "need" anymore speed to shoot through just about everything!

That's a fact. Till dinosaurs come back there isn't much that'll stop a 250 Partition at 2600.

 

[preacher]

If QL lists the old Barnes 250X, what pressure does it show for that 53.5gr/2015br load in a 22" bbl? Thanks.

 

[jimbires]

you do mean accurate 2015 powder ?


Cartridge : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet : .358, 250, Barnes 'X' S 35835
Useable Case Capaci: 61.654 grain H2O = 4.003 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.300 inch = 83.82 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Accurate 2015

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 79 42.80 2159 2587 40933 6015 100.0 1.349
-18.0 81 43.87 2201 2689 43324 6104 100.0 1.318
-16.0 83 44.94 2243 2792 45852 6191 100.0 1.288
-14.0 85 46.01 2284 2895 48524 6277 100.0 1.259
-12.0 87 47.08 2324 2999 51350 6362 100.0 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
-10.0 89 48.15 2364 3103 54338 6445 100.0 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 91 49.22 2404 3209 57499 6527 100.0 1.179 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 93 50.29 2444 3315 60844 6606 100.0 1.153 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 94 51.36 2483 3422 64387 6684 100.0 1.129 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 96 52.43 2521 3529 68139 6761 100.0 1.104 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 98 53.50 2560 3638 72117 6835 100.0 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 100 54.57 2598 3748 76337 6907 100.0 1.051 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 102 55.64 2636 3859 80818 6977 100.0 1.026 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 104 56.71 2674 3971 85580 7045 100.0 1.003 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 106 57.78 2712 4084 90645 7111 100.0 0.979 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 108 58.85 2750 4198 96039 7174 100.0 0.957 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 98 53.50 2612 3786 83594 6634 100.0 1.021 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 98 53.50 2482 3420 60504 7131 100.0 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!