Reloading for .45-70

[bdbrown66]

OK, so I finally got some decent weather to shoot my ladder test. Loads were as follows:

Brass - Starline
Powder - IMR 4198
Primer - CCI 200
Bullet - Nosler 300gr BT
4 rounds each with 48.0gr, 49.0gr, 50.0gr, 51.0gr, and 52.0gr
Distance - 100 yards

I shot each group over the chrono, placed about 15' from the muzzle. Here is the chrono data for each load:

48.0 49.0 50.0 51.0 52.0
Avg. velocity 1761 1868 1882 2001 2041
Extreme spread 123 34 116 78 56
Standard deviation 50 14 49 32 27

Now for pics of each group. The first two groups (48.0 and 49.0) had one shot each that went above the target. These rounds were shooting several inches higher than what I had my scope set for. I eventually dialed the scope down just to keep it on the paper.

48.0:


49.0:


50.0:


51.0:


52.0:


As you can see from the chrono data and the pics, I hit a sweet spot at 49.0, and then the group really opened up at 50.0, before starting to tighten up again as the charge increased. According to the Hodgdon load data, I should be safe to take this load on up to about 57.2gr. I probably won't go quite that high, but I am going to see if the group continues to tighten up above 52.0. I'll work up another ladder from 52.0 - 56.0 and see how that goes. Stay tuned...

 

[DrMike]

Fifty-two grains would certainly work in any woods environment. That is a fine load coming along.

 

[Newysan]

On loading the 45-70. I have fun with 5744 at 27 to 30 grains and a 325 grain cast lead bullet. I can shoot all day but I cannot tell you how fast it is going. I feel confident if it hit a pig or deer the party would over for the critter. I suppose I should mention it is shooting 1886 Winchesters. Some of the loads mentioned here sound great in modern guns. Be safe. Neil

 

[bobnob]

I suspect you're going to see better accuracy with a little more powder and velocity.

How are you finding shooting it over the bench? I struggled to get good groups at first, because I was shooting with the same bench technique I'd learned shooting 222 Rem and 308 Win rifles. Once I learned how to hang onto the thing right, things improved a heap for me.

Bob

 

[Newysan]

Shooting the old guys over the bench is how I do it. The most important part is padding the shoulder for the crescent butt plates. As far as higher loads I have gone up to 32 grains{5744} but decided right away that was to much. These old guys are just fun to shoot, I have plenty of modern equipment for extremely tight stuff but I just love the old shooters. I had a 50-70 for a while and it also was fun, no tight groups but put me back over a hundred and fifty years. Fun to know how things were and have progressed.So be safe. Neil

 

[bdbrown66]

I suspect you're going to see better accuracy with a little more powder and velocity.

How are you finding shooting it over the bench? I struggled to get good groups at first, because I was shooting with the same bench technique I'd learned shooting 222 Rem and 308 Win rifles. Once I learned how to hang onto the thing right, things improved a heap for me.

Bob

I think you're right, on needing a little more velocity. We shall see.

Honestly, I don't seem to be having much problem shooting it off the bench. I don't use a lead sled or anything like that, just a Caldwell support bag under the forearm and bunny ears under the butt. My gun (H010CC) has a pretty decent recoil pad, so it's not thumping my shoulder, and the scope has 5" of eye relief so no problem with "scope eye." I just put my left hand up against the backside of the Caldwell bag, and a light grip on the forestock. I'm not laying the gun on my hand. It's really no different than when I shoot my muzzleloader.

 

[bdbrown66]

Ok, another round of testing this evening. Loads were from 52.0 - 56.0 of IMR 4198. I'm not going to post pics of all of them, but I did find a very nice load at 54.0. Average velocity 2125 fps, with extreme spread of 27 and SD of 14. I am quite happy with this load and will load some of them up to test out to 200 yards or so. The group I shot today was 1.5" with one flyer. Apparently I pulled the one shot just a little, because the other three measured .367". I can live with that. Oh...this was at 100 yards.

One important note: I examined all casings, looking for signs of pressure. I could not see any difference whatsoever between the primers on the 52.0 loads and the ones at 56.0. No flattening, cratering, backing out, etc. Nothing at all that would give me pause.

Keep shooting,
Brian

 

[super-7]

To answer one of your questions in the OP , the tipped bullets that are of spire point design are frowned on in the tube magazines the theory is on recoil it can set the next one off.
I often wonder if it has ever happened ?? Might be a myth busters quest.
One of the other reasons if you ever need to eject a live unfired round out of the chamber the longer tipped bullets can be quite tight coming out of the ejection port.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bdbrown66]

To answer one of your questions in the OP , the tipped bullets that are of spire point design are frowned on in the tube magazines the theory is on recoil it can set the next one off.
I often wonder if it has ever happened ?? Might be a myth busters quest.
One of the other reasons if you ever need to eject a live unfired round out of the chamber the longer tipped bullets can be quite tight coming out of the ejection port.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I discussed that with the folks at Nosler. They said the pointy bullet should not be used in a tube fed gun, for the reasons listed. But the round-tipped BT seems to shoot very well, so no problems with using it. I would say the pointy ones would be fine in a single shot rifle.

 

[bobnob]

Ok, another round of testing this evening. Loads were from 52.0 - 56.0 of IMR 4198. I'm not going to post pics of all of them, but I did find a very nice load at 54.0. Average velocity 2125 fps, with extreme spread of 27 and SD of 14. I am quite happy with this load and will load some of them up to test out to 200 yards or so. The group I shot today was 1.5" with one flyer. Apparently I pulled the one shot just a little, because the other three measured .367". I can live with that. Oh...this was at 100 yards.

One important note: I examined all casings, looking for signs of pressure. I could not see any difference whatsoever between the primers on the 52.0 loads and the ones at 56.0. No flattening, cratering, backing out, etc. Nothing at all that would give me pause.

Keep shooting,
Brian

Brian your 56g load of IMR4198 is fairly consistent with my loads of H4198 regarding velocity. I believe you're in the ball park now.

I'm betting the odd flier will be drawn in with a little more experience on the bench. You'll be putting five shots near an inch or better at 100y before you know it!

As stated before, H322 is also a fantastic powder and possibly the best compromise between top speeds and load density. I never chase top speeds in my 45-70 now anyway. The diff between 2100 and 2300fps is only a few extra yards of point blank range, nothing more, with heaps more recoil into the bargain...

Thanks for posting the results. Keep them coming; I love the 45-70!

 

[bdbrown66]

OK, so I tried the same load with different primers a couple weeks ago. The WLR primers seemed to be a little bit of an improvement in consistency, so I decided to do another test yesterday.

So, I loaded up 6 with the WLR primers and went to the range yesterday. I fired 6 with the CCI primers and 6 with the WLR. Both shoot good, but the WLR seems to be more consistent and shoot better. I'm locking this load down with the WLR primers. I'll try going up and down by .5gr to see if I can get the same result with the CCI. For the record, here are the specs for this load:

Nosler 300gr BT
54.0gr IMR 4198
Starline brass, trimmed to 2.095"
Winchester WLR primer
C.O.L. 2.550" (crimping right on the cannelure)

Velocity is about 2125 fps.

CCI group #1


CCI group #2


WLR group #1


WLR group #2

 

[DrMike]

Either load will work, though I understand your preference for the load using WLR primers. It would sure be a confidence booster to see that one ragged hole more frequently. Still, that is minute of moose (or elk, or bear, or deer, or...).

 

[SJB358]

Either load will work, though I understand your preference for the load using WLR primers. It would sure be a confidence booster to see that one ragged hole more frequently. Still, that is minute of moose (or elk, or bear, or deer, or...).

For sure. That's a great load and 2100 with 300 grain BST will hammer animals.