Resizing question

[Teknys]

Do you have to resize the case if it's going to be used in the same rifle?

What is the best way to get the headspace to be as close to my chamber as possible or will this cause pressure problems?

 

[DrMike]

Teknys,

You need only "neck size" (shaping the neck to fit the calibre). After two or three instances of "neck sizing," you will need to set the shoulder back slightly (a couple of thousandths) as the brass will begin to fit the chamber rather tightly.

 

[Teknys]

Do I need to buy a Neck Sizing Die or can I adjust the full Die to do the same thing?

 

[JD338]

Back off the full length resizing die and you will actually do a partial resize.
After 2-4 resizings (depends on the load), you will need to bump the shoulder back by doing a full length resize.

JD338

 

[rick smith]

Neck size with a neck sizing die, partial full length size with a properly adjusted full length die. You cannot neck size with a FL die, the body is being sized before the neck reaches it's sizing portion of the die.Rick.

 

[big rifle man]

Just a suggestion, How about a set of Redding competition shellholders? I use them for my partial resizing and they seem to work well.

 

[30-338]

On page 42 of Nolser reloading manual #6 they explain how to set up a full length die for neck sizing.

 

[Kawabuggy]

I agree with Rick Smith-neck size with a neck sizing die. Anytime you try to use a F/L sizing die to neck size, you are re-sizing the body of the case to a dimension that is POSSIBLY (likely) smaller than your chamber and then the brass will have to expand again to fit your chamber upon firing. It is this re-sizing, and expanding, cycle that wears out the brass. By using a neck-sizing die you are only working the neck portion of the casing leaving the rest of the case as an accurate fit for your chamber.

There will be people that argue that using your F/L sizing die is fine and it very well may be that you will burn out your barrel long before having a case failure if you re-size this way. Whatever way you choose IS NOT WRONG-it's just your personal choice.

I personally neck size cartridges that will be used in the same gun, and then when they reach a point where they are hard to chamber (10+ firings in some calibers), I'll use a shoulder bumping die to push the shoulder back a couple thousandths so that they will chamber easily again. I also anneal all of my cases after every firing and have not had a case failure yet in any of the calibers I load for.

Again, I can't state enough that reloading is all about YOUR personal preference. Just because someone else does it differently does not mean that either of you are right or wrong... Just your choice in the matter.

 

[rick smith]

30-338, if you really believe you can neck size with a FL die, try laying your case next to the FL die, with the shell holder on the bottom of the case, and mark on the die where the neck would enter it's sizing area. Now hand insert the case into the die and mark on the case when forward movement is stopped. Now again lay the case beside the die, with shell holder attached, and look at the difference in the two marks. The body of the case is being sized before the neck enters it's sizing portion of the die.
A FL die can PFL or FL. If you try to neck size with a FL die, there will be some sizing of the body of the case.Rick.

 

[Ol` Joe]

30-338, if you really believe you can neck size with a FL die, try laying your case next to the FL die, with the shell holder on the bottom of the case, and mark on the die where the neck would enter it's sizing area. Now hand insert the case into the die and mark on the case when forward movement is stopped. Now again lay the case beside the die, with shell holder attached, and look at the difference in the two marks. The body of the case is being sized before the neck enters it's sizing portion of the die.
A FL die can PFL or FL. If you try to neck size with a FL die, there will be some sizing of the body of the case.Rick.

What you actually do with a FL is "partial size" not neck size.
This works quite well in most chambers but, it can still work brass quite a bit, especially from larger factory chambered rifles if not done right.

Personally I don`t think neck sizing is the only way to go for accuracy and case life. I set my FL dies to size only enough to keep the shoulder at the fired length, or no more then 0.002/3" under. You do need a headspace gage of some flavor, I use a Stoney Point, to do this.

This has gave very good accuracy in all my rifles and case life has been great. I loaded a batch of 223 Rem yesterday that have been fired 14Xs and they have only been trimmed twice and loads are not light, 25.7gr of Benchmark under 52 gr Noslers. The have all been fired from the same chamber (all my brass is allotted for 1 rifle only) a Winchester Hi Wall.

Some chamber IMO are better for this type of sizing. Tapered wall brass such as the old 7x57 or 30-06 don`t seem to do as well with this method of sizing as newer straight walled stuff like the 308 or "short mags". I believe the brass being held by the die wall while the necks are sized makes fore more concentric ammo in the end. This can`t be accomplished as easily with tapered brass.

The Redding shellholders that offer various heights works very well for setting up this way while keeping everything square.

JMHO.........

 

[30-338]

30-338, if you really believe you can neck size with a FL die, try laying your case next to the FL die, with the shell holder on the bottom of the case, and mark on the die where the neck would enter it's sizing area. Now hand insert the case into the die and mark on the case when forward movement is stopped. Now again lay the case beside the die, with shell holder attached, and look at the difference in the two marks. The body of the case is being sized before the neck enters it's sizing portion of the die.
A FL die can PFL or FL. If you try to neck size with a FL die, there will be some sizing of the body of the case.Rick.

Since this is a Nolser forum if you have question on how to neck size using a fl die as Nolser outline on page 42 you should direct your question to them. I'm sure they will appreciate your question.

 

[30-338]

Again on page 42 of Nosler manual they spell out how to use a FL die to neck size and partail resize. If you disagree contact Nolsler and tell them how wrong they are.

 

[rick smith]

30-338, I don't have a question on how to neck size. Nosler reads these posts and if they disagree with what I have written, they can tell me so. Did you try what I suggested? Doubt that you did. You couldn't sharpshoot me on other forums, don't know why you are trying it again.Rick.

 

[Desert Fox]

Ol' joe and Rick both was right on on this one. It's a wrong terminology to call it a partial neck size when the full lenght die is use. The right term should be partial re-size. Nothing wrong with either one method. I use both with good result.

 

[30-338]

30-338, I don't have a question on how to neck size. Nosler reads these posts and if they disagree with what I have written, they can tell me so. Did you try what I suggested? Doubt that you did. You couldn't sharpshoot me on other forums, don't know why you are trying it again.Rick.

Rick, If I cann't post what's in a nosler manual and your having a hard time with that don't know what to say. If I'm out of line with my post I'm sure someone here will tell me. If you disagree with Nolser that between you and them as to asking me to try this or that that not what I posted.

 

[rick smith]

I don't have a problem with what Nosler said. There is a better way to neck size, that is without modifying the body. If you don't understand that principal then you should follow their instructions. Instructions in manuals and those that come with die sets are generalized in nature. Once one learns the ins/outs, he/she will look for a better way to acomplish the task at hand. A prime example is setting a FL die. Not a single one of my FL dies are set by the instructions that came with the die set. I set them to bump the shoulder back 0.001-0.002" after the cases become tight to bolt closure. I don't just run the die down to touch the shell holder and then another 1/8-1/4 turn. Otherwise I just neck size.
If you don't care to try what I posted, I don't have a problem with that. Some loaders don't care to learn anything new. Post what you want, load as you want. Doesn't bother me at all. I answer questions based on what I do myself and know to work not on something I have read.Rick.

 

[JD338]

You can not do a true neck size without a neck size die. Using a sizing die, its either a full length resize or a partial resize, depending on how much you choose to resize.

JD338

 

[old #7]

You can not do a true neck size without a neck size die. Using a sizing die, its either a full length resize or a partial resize, depending on how much you choose to resize.

JD338

You hit the nail on the head.
It is impossible to only size the neck in a full length die. A full length die will size the shoulder area as the neck starts to get sized. This will cause the shoulder to be pushed forward. After you size this way a couple of times your brass won't chamber and you will have to bump the shoulder back.
I use the partial full length re-size technique and the neck size technique for my 30-06AI. I backed the die out of the press a turn or two and ran the brass all the way in. This sized the neck and the shoulder. I chamber the brass to check for fit. The brass was long ang the bolt wouldn't close without alot of pressure.
I screwed the die in until I got a nice slight crush fit at this point the brass is exactly the same length as my chamber.

I neck size with a neck die for aproximately four firings or until the bolt closed too hard. Then I go back to the PFL method.
I don't full length re-size any of my bolt gun brass.

 

[Kawabuggy]

And to further add to what Ole #7, and Rick Smith are saying, IF you are neck sizing only, and WHEN the time comes to bump the shoulder back, you can buy shoulder bumping dies that will ONLY push the shoulder back, leaving the base of the case expanded to fit your chamber. Granted, this would require a F/L sizing die, a neck die, and a shoulder bumping die for each caliber that you load for. Yes, it gets expensive. This is how I do all of my reloading.

Instead of buying shoulder bumping/body dies, I've modified my Lee F/L sizing dies by removing the expander ball, and then opening up the neck area so that no part of the neck area is worked when I press the case up into the die. In addition to modifying the neck area, I use a brake cylinder hone and open up the inside the die to just under what a 3x fired case (from the same gun) measures. This way, the diameter of the body is only worked enough to allow the case to chamber easily, while I bump the shoulder back, and the neck is not touched at all leaving the neck sizing die to finish the case.

If you play with this stuff long enough, it all begins to make sense, and you will tweak your process along the way. Again, as I stated before, no one persons process is WRONG, just occasionally different than yours or mine.

I'm just now learning how to turn necks for factory rifles. Something I thought I would never do.. But since I have the time, and the inclination to learn, I'm trying it.

 

[NTM]

I don't have a problem with what Nosler said. There is a better way to neck size, that is without modifying the body. If you don't understand that principal then you should follow their instructions. Instructions in manuals and those that come with die sets are generalized in nature. Once one learns the ins/outs, he/she will look for a better way to acomplish the task at hand. A prime example is setting a FL die. Not a single one of my FL dies are set by the instructions that came with the die set. I set them to bump the shoulder back 0.001-0.002" after the cases become tight to bolt closure. I don't just run the die down to touch the shell holder and then another 1/8-1/4 turn. Otherwise I just neck size.
If you don't care to try what I posted, I don't have a problem with that. Some loaders don't care to learn anything new. Post what you want, load as you want. Doesn't bother me at all. I answer questions based on what I do myself and know to work not on something I have read.Rick.

rick

Would this work on most calibers? I have rums, wsm, weatherbys, win.mags etc. I know in my 300wsm the only way I can get the reloads to chamber is if I take 2-3 thou. off of the shell holder and fl resize. Is this a rifle with a tight chamber or are most wsm's like this?