Resizing question

[rick smith]

NTM, I use the same routine for all bottleneck cartridges I load, wildcats, Ackleys, magnums and factory. I load for a couple WSMs, a couple SAUMs and two different 300Rums. All are treated the same.

If you are having a chambering problem, first you need to find out where it occurs. New brass fired in your chamber should rechamber as easily as you removed it from the chamber. If it doesn't, then I measure to the Datum Line on the shoulder from the base of the case and compare it to an unfired round. Next two measurements would be neck OD and just in front of the web. Then I would check the concentricity of the fired case.
Might just need to polish the chamber.

If the fired case rechambers easily then the problem is in your dies or their adjustment. The expander balls can cause the shoulder to move forward and cause tight chambering. The common answer to hard to chamber is move the die down farther in the press or remove some of the shellholder. First you need to determine why they don't chamber easily. With the two WSMs I load for, I neck size 4-5 times before I have to bump the shoulder. If you have a question relating to the above just post and I will try to be of assistance.Rick.

 

[30-338]

I don't have a problem with what Nosler said. There is a better way to neck size, that is without modifying the body. If you don't understand that principal then you should follow their instructions. Instructions in manuals and those that come with die sets are generalized in nature. Once one learns the ins/outs, he/she will look for a better way to acomplish the task at hand. A prime example is setting a FL die. Not a single one of my FL dies are set by the instructions that came with the die set. I set them to bump the shoulder back 0.001-0.002" after the cases become tight to bolt closure. I don't just run the die down to touch the shell holder and then another 1/8-1/4 turn. Otherwise I just neck size.
If you don't care to try what I posted, I don't have a problem with that. Some loaders don't care to learn anything new. Post what you want, load as you want. Doesn't bother me at all. I answer questions based on what I do myself and know to work not on something I have read.Rick.

Alittle over 25yr ago I gave up on standard type die but I must admit I do use the Redding type S neck die for some calibers. I will post a picture of my dies shortly. I have use a fl die to neck size/partial resize before I moved on.

On thing I learned reloading (45yrs now)alot of ways to do things. Reloading should be sharing of information not trying to prove one way is better than the other.

I will agree any time you run a case into a FL the amount the die will size depending on how the chamber is cut plus who's die is used. Years ago I learned about custom shoulder bumping dies and have quite afew of them so bumping the shoulders back has been around for a long time and they come with miro meter the price on one today is around $100. I think I have around $2500 in those type dies/bushings.

Most times I can get around 8/10 firing before having to set the shoulders back and I try and have the chambers cut that way best I got was around 39 firing before I had to set the shoulders back. I use Walt Berger method on setting up a die one of his BR tricks that he published in vol 11 precision shooting 1986-1987. Since I'm an ex Br shooter still have 5 6ppc plus my own design 6brshortentalldog that was use in Br and if I can find the letter from Redding on the OK on naming of that case I'll post that also.

I've been around a long time not much I haven't tried or build.

 

[NTM]

If the fired case rechambers easily then the problem is in your dies or their adjustment. The expander balls can cause the shoulder to move forward and cause tight chambering. The common answer to hard to chamber is move the die down farther in the press or remove some of the shellholder. First you need to determine why they don't chamber easily. With the two WSMs I load for, I neck size 4-5 times before I have to bump the shoulder. If you have a question relating to the above just post and I will try to be of assistance.Rick.

Tried last night and a fired case chamber easily. I set the dies for fl as per their instructions-(rcbs) where you lower the die until it touches the holder then go another 1/8 turn. I clean all my dies after each use. This is the only one of my guns that I am having this problem with. Any help/advice is appreciated.

 

[rick smith]

NTM, Set the die just to the shell holder and remove the expander ball, if you have cleaned the die since it's last use pre-lube the die and lube the case as you normally would. Size a case without the expander ball, wipe off the lube and try it in your rifle. If it fits, the expander ball is your problem. This is where a gauge to measure to the datum line is very handy. You can tell immediately where the shoulder is in relation to a fired case. Oversizing can also cause cases to be hard to chamber.
If the case doesn't fit, screw the die down about 1/16th turn and try a different case. Have you tried seating a bullet into a fired case by hand? It should go in easily. If not, neck thickness could be a problem. Also measure OAL of the case, might need trimming. Try the above and get back to me.Rick.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

NTM, as Rick mentioned, the most important thing to know is why.

When a round fails to chamber, the first thing I do is look at it really close, and determine where the sized case is hitting the chamber. You can't always tell, but sometimes you can.

 

[rick smith]

30-338, I started loading around 1962 so we both have about the same experience. I designed and had built two different wildcats but never bothered to have them offically named, don't think that makes one bit of difference. I know it doesn't to me. Never got into bench rest shooting, didn't have the time or money. Too much school and raising four children didn't allow for that. I had a good talk with Walt Berger at the Shot Show this past year. Very knowledgeable and interesting individual. I don't want to know how much I have tied up in reloading equipment and supplies.
I am a hands on kind of person so I will try many different things looking for what I consider to be the best way to correct different reloading situations. I make mistakes but learn from them and post what has worked for me. I don't follow the "In Theory" or page so and so says you can do this. I actually do these things and find out what really works for me. If I don't know, that is what I will post. Too many old and sometimes wrong theories are carried forth by those that don't try and accept it as is.
Rick.

 

[NTM]

NTM, Set the die just to the shell holder and remove the expander ball, if you have cleaned the die since it's last use pre-lube the die and lube the case as you normally would. Size a case without the expander ball, wipe off the lube and try it in your rifle. If it fits, the expander ball is your problem. This is where a gauge to measure to the datum line is very handy. You can tell immediately where the shoulder is in relation to a fired case. Oversizing can also cause cases to be hard to chamber.
If the case doesn't fit, screw the die down about 1/16th turn and try a different case. Have you tried seating a bullet into a fired case by hand? It should go in easily. If not, neck thickness could be a problem. Also measure OAL of the case, might need trimming. Try the above and get back to me.Rick.

I'll give these a try. I trim the cases to .010 less than what the manual states. Thanks.

 

[rick smith]

NTM, You might be able to get enough sizing of the case without the die even touching or barely touching the shellholder, Partial Full Sizing. Set the die to touch the shell holder then back out half a turn, size a case and try it in your rifle. If the bolt doesn't close easily, turn the die in about 1/8 turn and try a different case. Keep moving the die down until the case fits.
You can make your own headspace measuring device by using a pistol case that will fit over the neck of your WSM case so that the mouth of the pistol case is approximately half way down the shoulder of the WSM. I just tried a 40S&W case and it would work. Put the pistol case over the neck of the WSM case and measure between the bases of both cases on a piece of once fired brass. Since a once fired case fits easily back into your rifle you don't need to move the shoulder any farther back than that. Now do the same measurement with a piece of brass that is too tight in your chamber.
I neck size, bushing die without an expander ball, until the brass gets too tight to chamber, just pass snug. Then I set my FL die so that the shoulder is bumped back 1-2 thousants.
I polish all my expander balls until they have a mirrow finish and use a dry lube inside the neck. Let us know if this helps with your sizing.Rick.

 

[NTM]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

 

[old #7]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

Sounds like you have a tight chamber.
Alot of times the die needs to get turned in after it contacts the shell holder to get all ot the "slop" out of the press. They call it ...allowing the press to cam over.

 

[rick smith]

NTM, now you need to try it with the expander ball in the die. Just a matter of elimination to find and correct the problems.Rick.

 

[JD338]

I polish all my expander balls until they have a mirrow finish and use a dry lube inside the neck. Rick.

Rick,

How do you go about polishing the expander ball and what do you use for a polishing compound?

JD338

 

[30-338]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

One of the first dies RCBS made for the 300WSM besides FL was a small base sizer and I think Redding makes one also.

 

[rick smith]

JD338, I use tripoli on a rag wheel and jeweler's rouge on a leather wheel. Having a small bench mounted polishing lathe helps. Before it, I would chuck the expander assembly in a hand drill and use the same compounds. I have used 600grit emory paper cut in small strips followed by cleaning patches using JB cmpd. Any fine metal polishing material should work.

For a dry lube I mixed motor mica, graphite, Imperial dry lube and moly powder. Just had these in the shop and decided to use them together. Have it in a Tupperware sandwich container. Dip the case to the shoulder, nylon brush into the neck, couple of turns, ready for neck sizing.Rick.

 

[30-338]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

If it was me I'd buy a small base sizer for the 300WSM, RCBS and Redding makes them. If you look at my post on Redding body dies I have them in small base sizer for the 30-06,223 and 6.5x284 and in the Redding type s dies post there a small base sizer for the 6opc.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

If it was me I'd buy a small base sizer for the 300WSM, RCBS and Redding makes them

I didn't know if they made them for 300 WSM, but now that I know they do, +1

 

[NTM]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

If it was me I'd buy a small base sizer for the 300WSM, RCBS and Redding makes them. If you look at my post on Redding body dies I have them in small base sizer for the 30-06,223 and 6.5x284 and in the Redding type s dies post there a small base sizer for the 6opc.

Sorry but I don't know what you mean by small base sizer :?:

 

[30-338]

Took the expander ball out and tried to resize. The only way a resized one would chamber is when I threaded it 1/8 turn down after contacting the shell holder.

If it was me I'd buy a small base sizer for the 300WSM, RCBS and Redding makes them. If you look at my post on Redding body dies I have them in small base sizer for the 30-06,223 and 6.5x284 and in the Redding type s dies post there a small base sizer for the 6opc.

Sorry but I don't know what you mean by small base sizer :?:

Here what it does from RCBS site

The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die.

hope this helps

 

[rick smith]

NTM, If the regular die will size them to fit your chamber, as you indicated, you don't need a small base die. No reason to oversize your brass.Rick.

 

[boomer68]

Hi Rick,

What dies do you recommend for neck sizing? I mostly load belted magnums.