Rifle Stripping Copper

[ColColt]

I have a rifle and while it gives acceptable hunting accuracy for a hunting caliber and being a FW barrel, it strips copper from the jackets too much. After firing a three shot group, letting it cook firing another three shot group followed by a little cleaning, etc. I'll bring it home and start the final clean up process. I'll take a small flashlight with a Q-Tip just inside the muzzle as it acts as a light reflector, shine the light to see what things look like. Despite cleaning to the point I thought it was clean I can readily see copper on the lands for a good inch or so inside the muzzle.

I can get it out but it's not better next time. I have other rifles that may take 15-30 to clean up but this one takes an good hour due to all the copper. so, I've thought of running some of Tubb's Final Finish bullets through the bore to see if that would smooth things out a bit. Any and all comments/suggestions about this most welcomed.

 

[.300winmag]

I had a 1-11" Krieger installed on my .308 when it was built. I shot 180 GameKings for several years and experienced severe copper fouling. Took it to the gunsmith and found a slight rough patch in the barrel. Decided it was too much hassle to install a new barrel and stuck with it. After about 100-125 round, I barely have any copper fouling at all. I assume the rough spot eventually smoothed itself out.

A bore lapping may speed things up, in terms of reducing copper fouling. I did it to an '06 that I thought had been burnt out and after the lapping, it shoots like a dream. I cannot remember what compound or grit I used, however. Also, if you can see copper for quite a ways in the bore, have a gunsmith take a look at it and ask him if he thinks bore lapping will help or if it is best to replace the barrel, either from the factory or from Hart, Krieger, Lilja, Bartelin, Brux etc.

Had a friend run the Tubb's bullet's through his 7mm-08; he lost about 200fps in velocity after the regiment and says he would not recommend them to anybody. . . I trust his word and would try something else before the Tubb's solution.

 

[Anonymous]

Have you been shooting Barnes bullets?

The only rifle I had that copper fouled that badly had been shot with a lot of Barnes. It took a lot of cleaning and a lot of shooting to get it to quit.

 

[Guy Miner]

I have used the Final Finish bullets. Not sure they made a huge difference, but I sure didn't see any loss of accuracy.

How is the accuracy of your barrel? Even when fouled?

Sometimes I'm not real fond of stripping the barrel completely clean of fouling, provided it's still producing good accuracy.... Some folks have trouble with that concept and want an incredibly clean barrel, but I think my approach is practical. If it fouls and still shoots just fine... Why mess with it?

Guy

 

[Thebear_78]

I have used the tubs system on two rifles and my dad did another one. The first one I did was my 300 RUM. It shot extremely well before and still shot as good if not better after the tubs system. I noticed no loss of velocity and I had it nitrided shortly after the polishing and speeds picked up slightly. The biggest difference was it is now exceedingly easy to clean. I’m talking one or two patches and squeaky clean.

The other was my 375 RUM after parkerizing. Some times the bore needs a little lapping to smooth it all back out after parkerizing. After I did the tubs system (talk about taking a beating at the range) I did new load workup due to powder shortages. I have several very good shooting loads now that shoot every bit as good as any previous load so I doubt there has been any detriment to accuracy. As to loss of velocity I’m getting 3000fps + with 260gr Accubonds so I doubt that also.

My dad did the tubs polish system on the 280 ackly I built for him a couple of years ago. The shilen barrel that I used for his rifle had a really tight bore and showed pressure signs with factory ammo. He ordered two of the polish systems and used both sets of the coarser grit with his barrel along with the fine final finish. The rifle still shoots very well and cleans very easily. It still shows slight pressure signs with factory ammo but not nearly as bad as before. I did notice that the ES and SD seemed to shrink somewhat in his gun with the same loads we used before, It also did lose a touch of velocity but it was always a “fast” barrel before. Probably it had more pressure because of the tight bore and that led to the extra speed before.

 

[DrMike]

I have used J-B and a tight fitting patch on a couple of rifles that fouled badly. I never used the Tubbs system on a rifle, however. I have always advocated that one would need to take some care in any lapping of the barrel as it does hold the potential for degrading accuracy. Nevertheless, I have had a couple of barrels that fouled so badly that I was willing to risk the degradation. Both have turned out to be real shooters. One was a .280 Rem and the other was my .325 WSM; both stripped copper badly. Using the J-B Compound, both were made into fine shooters and fouling was reduced significantly.

 

[ColColt]

Had a friend run the Tubb's bullet's through his 7mm-08; he lost about 200fps in velocity after the regiment and says he would not recommend them to anybody. . . I trust his word and would try something else before the Tubb's solution.

That's strange. I've read of others that said they gained some 30-60 fps instead of lost. Larry Willis did an expose' on Tubb's bullets and indicated he gained 40 fps with a 300 Win Magnum he used them on.

I don't use Barne's bullets. Most of what I shoot are for this caliber either Nosler or Hornady or both. Accuracy seems to vary. It can range from 1-1 1/2" to over 2". Best groups are with the 130 gr Ballistic Tip and 59.5 gr of H4831. It's a FW barrel and I don't really expect much better than 1-1 1/2" groups. It's the copper fouling that bothers me more. I don't mind a little fouling but feel the copper is not conducive to best accuracy and if enough of it builds up I'd think would pressure.

I've used KG2 in an effort to smooth out the bore to no avail. More recently I've bought a jar of JB Bore Cleaner and tried that the other night. I haven't shot it since then. I'm hoping to get to the range Tuesday and have already made some rounds up with the Tubb's bullets, less the coarser #1 and may as well give it a go as nothing else seems to do any better.

Using the J-B Compound, both were made into fine shooters and fouling was reduced significantly.

I ran a tight patch around an undersized brush laden with JB down the bore some 20 strokes. Is that sufficient or do you have to do it several times?

That surprises me about the Krieger barrel. I would have thought they were hand lapped.

 

[.300winmag]

Hmm, I can't explain the discrepancy. My inclination is every barrel is different. Really interesting how different the results are. I'm going to have to ponder that one for a while.

 

[DrMike]

Using the J-B Compound, both were made into fine shooters and fouling was reduced significantly.

I ran a tight patch around an undersized brush laden with JB down the bore some 20 strokes. Is that sufficient or do you have to do it several times?

I actually never counted strokes; I simply continued until there was no more copper coming out with the J-B. I would imagine that it was perhaps twenty strokes, though it could have been less or more. You were doing it precisely I did with a tight patch around an undersized brush, the patch covered with J-B. The 325 WSM cleaned up after about 80 to 100 rounds, which meant treatment perhaps eight or so times. The 280 took much more to get the barrel cleared. In my experience, there is less problem with the barrel than there is with the throat. A rough throat will cause copper to be carried down the length of the bore. Consequently, both of these rifles now give me 0.25 inch groups. Velocity on the 280 increased by well over 100 fps. The change in velocity on the 325 was less marked and this particular rifle was accurate from the start--it was simply easily coppered up.

 

[ColColt]

I've only recently, as mentioned, used the JB and haven't tried it at the range yet. There is zero copper in the barrel now as far as I can see inside the muzzle but I know from times past that after shooting it I'd again witness copper that took some time to clean with the other products I used.

Perhaps I should just try one more time after the JB treatment the other night, and see if it fouls as badly before resorting to the Tubb's treatment. I wish I could see the throat but, I can only see about 1-2" down the muzzle end.

 

[DrMike]

The good news is that as you shoot, and as you clean, the throat is cleaned up and the barrel is dressed. This is the reason we speak of a barrel "seating in." On well-built custom barrels, seating in can take as few as a score of rounds or so. On some factory barres, it can require a couple of hundred rounds before a barrel begins to seat in. I believe my 280 had around 250 rounds before I began to see marked improvement in accuracy and velocity. It was a CRF Featherweight, and I was unwilling to let it go as they were only made for a brief period; so I persisted and it did come around. The 325 was among the last rifles out the door of the New Haven plant; so again, I was willing to work with it. Both rifles are a joy to shoot now. Either has taken quite a few head of game.

 

[ColColt]

I suppose had this been any other rifle I wouldn't have fussed about it as much but since it was a special Tribute 270 and I had read out of the box 1 MOA or better I was a bit disgruntled. Moreover, I know of several who got better accuracy with theirs than I did. I have gotten the occasional 3/4"-1" groups with it but for the most part they've been larger.

To date, this one has seen about 200-225 rounds. I live in hopes than soon it will not only shoot better but also cease stripping copper as much as it has.

 

[REDGREEN]

J&B paste should help immensely. Warm up your elbow and this should solve your problem.

 

[ColColt]

I've ran two patches of it through the bore followed by one of the JB Bore Bright. I'll try tomorrow and see if it did any good and if not, onward to the Tubb's.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

J&B paste should help immensely. Warm up your elbow and this should solve your problem.

I love jb bore paste! I agree it should work quite well for you

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[ColColt]

After running two different patches with the JB on it wrapped around a brush and looking through the muzzle far as I could I've never seen this rifle so sparkling clean. About 15-20 strokes the first time with the JB, clean with Hoppe's the two clean patches, ran another patch of JB back through with about twenty strokes. The Q-Tip trick helps(poor man's short bore scope) in that you can see a little further in than just with the naked eye. I hope it works and I'll find out tomorrow.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Glad it work for you. You should check out the special plugs that your supposed to use with the paste. I think brownells has them. They make a perfectly tight fit in the bore so you can really scrub

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[ColColt]

Is this what you're talking about? Never seen those before and didn't really know they existed. I wish I had those last night.

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-c ... 13839.aspx

 

[BeeTee]

I've only ever found copper in the final 6-12" of the bore, nearest the muzzle. Heat from friction is said to be the main cause of copper fouling. Heat from bullet friction is highest nearer the muzzle because of the much higher velocity. I've read that barrel heat in the second half of the barrel is more due to bullet friction than from hot gases.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

Thats it! They make things easier. Another thing is never to shoot a dry barrel. Always run an oily patch down the tube before hitting the range.

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