Ruining A Good Load

[truck driver]

I went to the range on Thursday and played with the .338Wm with some 200gr ABs wanting to work up a good flat shooting load. :grin:
Well I was doing a ladder test for OAL and had increase the powder charge by a grain and a half trying to get the velocity into the Nosler E manual range an was still 200fps short according to my Chrony. :x
Nosler shows 76gr of RL19 at 3040fps as max I was getting 2822fps with my batch but it produced this group. :shock:
What to do? :?
I can now see why DrMike said the chronograph has caused him to be disappointed in some great shoot loads.

( Correction, in the picture it says RL17 but should be RL19 )
(Disclaimer) any load info provided here use at your own risk, never know when one will right the wrong numbers down when working with multiple/different powders. :grin:

 

[elkhunternm]

Use it,there's not a deer or elk that will notice the difference in velocity.

 

[kraky1]

Boy...you got a stumped deal there!
Quick load agrees with Nosler and thinks that load should be doing 3022 and 63 K pressure.
Your load is acting a full 6% Milder.
And if you have a 24 inch barrel and we use the node method you are smack dab in the middle of a node where it should be least accurate.
It's hard to recommend much workup being you are on top of some max data .... it seems your lot of powder is funky.
On the other hand it's still a pretty fast load with a pretty high BC Bullet and capable of doing a lot of great things.
Is your gun pretty normal speed wise with other powders?

 

[kraky1]

Fwiw..Just checked newer Hornady and lyman data.....they all say that load is max at 75 to 76.3...so dang!

Dumb question..... the Chrono was acting normal with other loads?

 

[DrMike]

As Ken noted, the difference in "killing power" (whatever that is) between the load you have and the theoretical you thought you had, is insignificant. There won't be an elk in the world that is able to calculate the difference. Each one shot with your load will give up the ghost pretty convincingly. Go forth and drop some game.

 

[kraky1]

Putting your actual speed against you're hopeful speed.....on a ballistic chart..... even if you got your top speed it would be drained down to your actual speed in the first 75 yards.....not a huge deal if you think about it.

 

[longrangehunter]

TD-

I'm with what elkhunternm, and Dr. Mike. Stretching and/or searching for another good load can be tricky, or not. If what you have is consistent each and every time, well you'll save yourself a little barrel life as well as the brass if that matters enough or not to you?

I've never been one to stretch the limits of a cartridge, at least not the bigger ones. For me the payload delivered downrange was certainly enough, and with less recoil! I think the only two cartridges I've owned that were screaming in the velocity department were a 300 Jarrett, and I suppose my 280 AI Jarrett rifle, but I've backed that off since first owning it. Only my smaller caliber rifles for long range tactical events are running near the top end, but they don't have much recoil to begin with, and weight almost 16 lbs. in the ready.

Another thing I've noticed is the slower speeds vs. what these books have listed? Most of the time I'm seeing slower speeds vs. what's listed, but not always either. i.e. my 6.5x47L and 260 Rem. seem to run right at what everyone else is seeing, but then that data is not in the books, but what I read online or from other PRS members.

Your 338WM is a thumper on both ends! I guess I'd ask myself is the added velocity worth the extra recoil, and/or is a max point blank range window that important for your needs?

 

[longrangehunter]

Putting your actual speed against you're hopeful speed.....on a ballistic chart..... even if you got your top speed it would be drained down to your actual speed in the first 75 yards.....not a huge deal if you think about it.

Another great point!

 

[truck driver]

kraky1 the barrel is 24" and the chrony has been working fine and other powders have been close to QL . It's just a bad batch of powder. The powder has produced lows and highs of over 60fps with in a 9 shot avg. Glad I only have one pound of it.


LRH I understand what your saying and agree with you and truly normally don't run max loads. I was at least looking for velocities equal to what I can achieve with the same bullet weight that I can in the 35 Whelen/AI with out going max pressure wise.

RL17 will get me where I want to be at right around 2921fps, It's doing it with a 210gr PT.

I'll have to be careful here since I'm beginning to compare it to the 35/AI which everyone told me was nipping at the heals of the .338Wm and I didn't believe them till I started loading for one.

 

[longrangehunter]

The difference is bore size though between the two. The next bore size up with a equal weight bullet will always shoot faster, so it's harder to compare the two. The smaller diameter bullet has more SD, while it may not be able to be pushed as fast with the same pressure as it's larger cousin the SD of the bullet, and BC makes up for the lost or equal velocity.

 

[kraky1]

Well...youre probably smart to move on. I do most my load testing with four or five shot groups with new recipes. Last year I was working up a load for a friend's 3006 Ruger and I shot a sweet group at 200 yards right around an inch for 4 Shots with reloader 19 and 168 BT's. Just like your load it was much slower than it should have been and should have been well into the 2700s and it was down at about 2600 FPS. But heck...we shoot our deer at under 150 so who cares. I showed my buddy the Target and he about wet his pants..... I loaded up 10 more thinking I was going to shoot an unbelievable 10-shot group at the range and finalize the development and went back and nothing shot for crap ever again! Damn re19....lol!

 

[jimbires]

Rodger , that looks good to me . I'd be happy for sure . I like velocity , but I couldn't scrap this combo . shoot it a couple more times to be sure , then put that recipe on top .

 

[OU812]

The load sure looks good but I also see your point about the velocity. At the current charge weight are you seeing any pressure signs? If not you could increase the charge until you do then back down a little.

 

[boomer68]

I ran into similar issues with a batch of H4831 when loading for a 270 Win. Velocity was 100-150fps below book numbers. Same barrel length too.

 

[Dwh7271]

T.D,
I agree with the others.
Shoot and confirm that load. Load a few of them and shoot something.
You're running a 200 1-200 fps faster than most 3006 loads and there's been a bunch of stuff dropped with that.
I'd be pleased. Absolute maximum velocity doesn't trump accuracy.

 

[Elkman]

TD, we have had this discussion before, I think? You can correct me if I am wrong. That is a great load with great accuracy. You can continue to work with other combinations. and end up with perhaps a smaller group or faster load with similar grouping. But it will not kill game any better, nor will the game know the difference. Let us know how it goes.

 

[35 Whelen]

Roger,
Having used a .338WM for nearly 30 years (It used to outsell any other caliber in Anchorage 3/1 in the 80/90s)
We loaded for the caliber some, but we had a good client that owned a Sporting Goods store that was bringing us Federal Preamium 338s in both the 210gr & the 250gr Nosler PT bullets by the CASE !!! So we had plenty of shooting with both. I liked the 210gr for all around hunting.
And used the 250gr for backing up Brown Bear hunters.
From memory over a cheap chrono the velocitys were 2850
On the 210s and 2650 on the 250s. Which you seam to be right at with your loading.
There is nothing walking around in Alaska that either of those loads wont flatten ......... And since I suspect your getting yours ready, for your up coming Elk hunt out west. To be honest, I think your good to go! Neither of my two .338s; ever shot a group as good, as that one you shot ! With either factorys ( which I mostly used ,cause I liked Nosler PTs and I got them for FREE) or with our handloads. The 2850fps and a 200gr AB, is going to be a Stellar performer the way your shooting.
Forget about what the "next can of powder" might do, and your golden with that combo; if you do YOUR part.........

Ps. You shouldnt start comparing the .338 to the Whelen as
it can lead to alot of head scratching and shaking ! Scotty has pushed his 35 W right up to those same numbers as I shot for years with the Federal Prems out of a .338.
I shoot mine 100fps below those numbers because I prefer
less recoil and my 35W is light. After seeing all this on the chrono and realizing there was really nothing to gain,and after moving back to Maine (where it would only get used for Moose hunts) I simply sold my beloved SuperGrade .338. ( though I do have moments when I sorta wish I still had it and my .375 H&H Sako still just to get them out and recall the memorys both had brought me)
But with that said, if I were headed out Elk hunting and HAD
To take a 400 yd shot ,or go home empty handed ,then the flatter trajectory of your load ;would be the one to reach for !
Good Luck on a big one, its my favorite hunt, Elk in the Rocky Mts........

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for all the support and advise fellas. I have always prided myself on my shooting and hunting skills and to be honest this is only the third magnum rifle I have ever owned and they have come to me late in life.
Believe it or not I was a one rifle man for a very long time and the 30-06 was my go to cartridge.
So when I started working with them and Fotis sold me a Chronograph and I saw the velocities I was disappointed when I wasn't seeing super fast velocities that magnums have been touted to produce and have found myself chasing the velocity Koolade and that's the reason for the title of this post.
If this had been a 338-06/ Whelen I would have been jumping with joy but the word magnum caused me to expect more.
Thanks for opening my eyes again.

 

[brikwhitt]

Running a good load is right...I've been around a lot of 338 winnys, and to be honest with you, If you're getting that good of a result with your load now, I dont see what there is to gain by going faster if accuracy suffers.

I'll take a slower load that shoots lights out over a faster load that doesn't every day of the week.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[baltz526]

If I was working out of a large jug of powder I would live with accuracy over velocity. Since you are working out of a 1lb can, Keep looking for velocity and accuracy.