Same or Different?
- Thread starter NYDAN
- Start date
- Nov 4, 2004
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Dan,
The newer BTs hold up to higher impact velocities. If it were me, I would use the newer bullets for load development and hunting and use the older version for target practice.
JD338
The newer BTs hold up to higher impact velocities. If it were me, I would use the newer bullets for load development and hunting and use the older version for target practice.
JD338
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- #3
salmonchaser
Ammo Smith
- Dec 13, 2013
- 5,058
- 5,237
Yes, the older ones were definitely designed for deer and antelope type critters. Pretty dang explosive when hitting bone. Never had a deer walk away when hit with the older ones but I never thought it an appropriate bullet for elk. They are tougher now thats for certain.
I run into a substantial amount of people that refuse to use BT's to this day because of the bad experiences with the early ones, and hear the stories regularly. In many cases it wasn't because of lost deer, but rather carrying it out in virtually 2 pieces. The older ones are/were explosive. They were changed into the good bullets they are today out of necessity. I always make sure to relay that they are not like the old ones and are a good design today if used within their intended speeds, but with some people I can see they aren't convinced.
Shade Tree has it right. When I got my M70 FWT 7x57 I worked up a great load with the 140 gr. ballistic Tips. Tight groups and some surprising speed. I'd always read that the 7x57 had to be loaded weak because of the older Mausers but as I was working with a new M70 decided to see what could be done with the cartridge. Worked up a load with W760 to 2880 FPS with the 140 BTs on a very hot Tucson afternoon. Dropped back a hair to 2800 FPS as the bolt was showing a bit of stickiness and called it good.
Fast forward to opening day and I got a shot and a nice eating size Mule Deer and smacked him good right on the shoulder. It was definitely a good hit but it looked like the bullet blew up leaving a wide wound. I don't know if the bullet actually penetrated the shoulder. The deer ran into a gully and while heading for where it disappeared I tore out the meniscus in my right knee. Unable to walk I asked my son in law to follow up on the deer with his son and finish it for me. They refused saying they wanted to get me off the hill and to a doctor. I have not hunted with them since.
The bullets in question were the Ballistic Tips that came in 100 bullet boxes. It is my understanding that bullets in the 50 bullet count boxes had tougher jackets and bullets. Can't say for certain as I switched to 150 gr. partitions and 160 gr. (maybe) for my 7x57. Can't speak for the 150 gr. ABLRs as so far they have not shot worth spit in any of my 7MM rifles. (Three 7x57s, one .280 Rem. and one 7MM Rem. mag.) They may be a lost cause, at least for me.
Paul B.
Fast forward to opening day and I got a shot and a nice eating size Mule Deer and smacked him good right on the shoulder. It was definitely a good hit but it looked like the bullet blew up leaving a wide wound. I don't know if the bullet actually penetrated the shoulder. The deer ran into a gully and while heading for where it disappeared I tore out the meniscus in my right knee. Unable to walk I asked my son in law to follow up on the deer with his son and finish it for me. They refused saying they wanted to get me off the hill and to a doctor. I have not hunted with them since.
The bullets in question were the Ballistic Tips that came in 100 bullet boxes. It is my understanding that bullets in the 50 bullet count boxes had tougher jackets and bullets. Can't say for certain as I switched to 150 gr. partitions and 160 gr. (maybe) for my 7x57. Can't speak for the 150 gr. ABLRs as so far they have not shot worth spit in any of my 7MM rifles. (Three 7x57s, one .280 Rem. and one 7MM Rem. mag.) They may be a lost cause, at least for me.
Paul B.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,344
- 3,185
THIS^^^^^^^
- Thread starter
- #9
hunter24605
Handloader
- Apr 30, 2016
- 2,549
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I was about to say the same thing. Funny how a bad reputation follows a bullet for 30+ years despite volumes of evidence to the contrary proving the redesign was successful. The shooting/hunting community sure can carry a grudge. But then again there's people who wont take Tylenol cuz it has poison in it.
- Nov 4, 2004
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The BT got a bad wrap in it's early days, mostly because they were misused. They were not ment for smashing through shoulders. Nosler has fixed that and they work great on deer sized game. The 308 180 gr BT is a tough bullet and will hold up on elk with no problem.
I used the 7mm 160 gr BT a couple years ago when it was first introduced and shot a big doe during the late season. One shot through the heart and lungs dropped her in her tracks and she never even twitched, just lights out. I was pushing this bullet at 3000 fps from my 280AI.
I have shot quite a few deer with BT's and they just plain work. Great bullets!
JD338
I used the 7mm 160 gr BT a couple years ago when it was first introduced and shot a big doe during the late season. One shot through the heart and lungs dropped her in her tracks and she never even twitched, just lights out. I was pushing this bullet at 3000 fps from my 280AI.
I have shot quite a few deer with BT's and they just plain work. Great bullets!
JD338
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TackDriver284
Handloader
- Feb 13, 2016
- 2,560
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I remembered using the 7mm 140 BT in the late 90's, and once the bullet blew up on a quarter shot in the center brisket angled towards the boiler room from a 7 STW ( 3400 fps ) on an impala, I never made quarter shots ever again with this bullet.
I could not remember if the solid base was used in the 90's , would you clarify when Nosler stopped making the solid base? I'm trying to remember if I used the newer version or the older ones back then, but cannot remember.
I have used the Ballistic Tips on several rifles and they are awesome, I always put the bullet in the crease behind the shoulders when broadside, always goes down. Several was ear shots on those pesky javelinas and some hogs at ranges under 250 yards. Ballistic Tips are my go to bullet when it comes to deer and hog sized game. Very reliable bullet.
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flyingagg
Handloader
- Dec 16, 2019
- 462
- 479
The BT was the first bullet I ever loaded in a rifle cartridge. 180 grn in 300WBY. Back from 1986-1997. Took many deer in Texas (smaller than those up north), always shoulder shot, never lost a deer, always DRT. I new very little about reloading then, but it worked for me.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,343
- 8,906
Mark,
IIRC, Nosler stopped production of the Solid Base bullets in the early '90's opting for the Ballistic Tip design.
JD338
IIRC, Nosler stopped production of the Solid Base bullets in the early '90's opting for the Ballistic Tip design.
JD338
I was told by Nosler the 180gr .30 Ballistic Tips and larger were all beefed up for use on elk and larger animals. I cut many of them apart and found that to be true. The shank on those are about 3 times thicker. I think I actually posted pictures of those on here years ago. We shot tons of the old 150gr Ballistic Tips on rockchucks and they were explosive at 3500-3600fps, even at 600+yds. When they later beefed up the whole line up we stopped shooting them for rockchucks. I believe it was around the time they switched from 100 round boxes to 50 round boxes and jacked the prices way up. A buddy of mine shot a spike bull elk with one of the early 130 Ballistic Tip out of a .270 Win. He hit it in the heart, but just barely since it blew up on impact. You could of stuck your fist through the entrance hole.
Nosler actually made the Solid Base bullets along side the Ballistic Tips for several years before they discontinued them. Many people preferred the Solid Base performance and I believe that is because the tips on the Ballistic Tips caused a much more aggressive expansion compared to the soft lead tip.
Nosler actually made the Solid Base bullets along side the Ballistic Tips for several years before they discontinued them. Many people preferred the Solid Base performance and I believe that is because the tips on the Ballistic Tips caused a much more aggressive expansion compared to the soft lead tip.
TackDriver284
Handloader
- Feb 13, 2016
- 2,560
- 2,139
Thanks Jim
In fairness, most of the people I run into that have a bad taste in their mouth about those older BT's are not people like you or me that shoot regularly and follow every nuance of the gun and shooting world. They shot something that evidence at the time showed did not work for them, and it was much simpler just to move onto or use something they already knew worked. Although people around here do like their deer meat so maybe they are holding a grudge.
300WSM
Handloader
- Dec 24, 2011
- 962
- 577
Back in the day 90's way deep within the industry Nosler said a lot.
I think their cut off was 6mm 90 gr or 25 100 gr...
They swore up and down those bullets had thicker jackets.
That said it's still a volatile bullet upon impact and can leave a massive exit.
Then again many high powered cartridges loaded with common old core lokts, Winchester power points left massive exits as well.
See it's the never ending wanting the cake and eating it too in shooting.
People want a hard bullet that will open up hitting tissue.
In other words there still isn't a do-all bullet. Some are close but no do everything single bullet
