Short Action VS Long Action?

[roysclockgun]

I have had a fair amount of practical shooting experience since cutting my teeth with a 22 cal. rifle, back in the early 1950s. Over the years I have often puzzled over what, if any, is the advantage of short actions. I have heard others speak of a more rapid follow-up shot being a benefit of short actions, but given the small difference in inches that the throw of the bolt goes through, can the short action really make any difference in a hunting situation? On deer, for instance; I have taken deer under fire with a number of calibers, ranging from 243Win, up to 300RUM. After that first shot, I have learned to instinctively chamber the second round to be ready. I have never noticed any difference twixt the first shot and the "ready" point for the second shot. When using a long action, I have not seen a deer run off while I was chambering the second round and thought; "Oh gee! If I had only been using a short action, I could rechambered quicker and would have gotten that deer!" What is the big deal?
Of course, I understand that in combat, being able to flail away rapidly could mean the difference between going home that evening and going to the grave. From what I remember reading, a British soldier holds the record for aimed rapid fire with with a bolt rifle, using a Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifle, chambered in British 303 caliber. He supposedly was able to rapidly work the bolt knob with thumb and fore finger and slap the trigger with the ring finger. In that case, he could've not performed the feat, using a Model 1903 Springfield, having a longer action. But in hunting, if one factors in the time that it takes to recover from recoil and get the crosshairs to reacquire the target to make any sort of killing follow-up shot, then any bolt rifle currently in general use for big game hunting, can be recycled and ready and the difference in milli-seconds taken to recycle the longer actions is negliable! No?
Steven

 

[kendog]

I agree with you on this one. The only excuse I will swallow is the short action can be stronger and with a short action the rifle can be just a hair shorter overall. Yeah, grasping at straws.

 

[1Shot]

The short action is more rigged than a long action and does not flex as much as a long action thus is a hair more accurate. The cartridges that are chambered in short actions just work better through them than a long action.

 

[JD338]

In my mind, the only advantages would be a shorter overall length and lighter weight but not much, you are only talking .5". I have been told before that its faster cycling and more ridgid action but I don't really see it.

I started shooting Hi Power Competition back around 1980. Our club had a 200 yd Rapid Fire course, 5 shots in 30 seconds, time for reload and another 5 shots in 30 seconds. This was for sitting and prone position. One of my mentors timed me at 18 seconds for the string. His coaching enabled me to slow down and I usually fired my fifth shot at 29-30 seconds. Rifle was a M700 BDL 30-06 Long Action.

As for hunting, this has helped me on 2 different occasions where I needed to fire a second shot quickly. I remember a buck that appeared about 70 yds away in thick cover. The sun revealed a reflection on his head as horn. I grabbed my rifle got him in the scope, looked like an 8 pt and sent a bullet on its way. I called my shot low and back as the buck humped up and then bolted. My years of Hi Power rapid fire competition caused an instant reflex and the action was cycled (my cheek never leaves the stock) and I was waiting for the buck to come through another hole in the cover. I shot and hit him again. He ran a few yards and I heard him crash in the wet cedar swamp.
I met up with one of my hunting partners and asked me who shot those two quick shots, saying it wasn't me, someone with an automatic.

We went in and found the buck. I called placement of both shots. The buck was actually a 4 pt, he was quartering away on both shots so what I thought was an 8 pt was actually me seeing both sides. My Nosler PT bullets took out both lungs and exited about 2" apart dead center in the lungs on the off side. Rifle was a M700 Classic 35 Whelen Long Action.

If I wer using a Short Action rifle, it would not have made any difference.

JD338

 

[Elkman]

I am thinking there are three action lengths, short, standard and long. There is an appreciable difference in weight and speed of operation between a short action and the longer length magnum action. Much less so in the compairson between the short and standard length which seems to be your question. My discussion is the relationship between the short and standard. There is little or no difference in strength. Both lengths can be very accurate perhaps accuracy has more to do with the caliber. The short action rifles weigh a few ounces less than the comparible standard action rifle, and perhaps can be worked a milisecond faster than a standard action. Having owned both and shot both last week my take on it, has always been that the speed of operation and the weight are more of a "sales" gimmick than measureable to the hunter/shooter. Speed does not always go hand in hand with accuracy, as I proved to a young man many years ago, that a bolt gun accurately fired will out preform a lever gun not so accurately fired. Over the years I have trained myself to work the action while the rifle is on my shoulder, and in recoil, so my second shot is available if necessary as soon as the rifle returns to battery. I carry a fully loaded Win Model 70 with a full magazine and 8 additional cartridges on the stock for as long as I need to all day. I, like you am not aware of any game that didn't end up in my freezer because of my slowness with a followup shot. Thats my 02 and I am sure that others will have a slightly different and more extensive take. But I agree with your take on the issue.

I am a apparently slower than JD, for sure at typing, he says it well.!!!!!!!!!

 

[Greg Nolan]

If there's a difference other than length and weight I'm too clumsy to take advantage of it. It is nice to carry a light rifle up and down the Rockies with enough power and range to take whatever, wherever but there's usually a trade off in accuracy and certainly so in recoil. The lightest rifle I carry weighs 8 lbs loaded and it's a 338 RUM XCR with a muzzle break. The best of all worlds but again, don't be standing next to anything when you shoot if you don't have some kind of sound supressor in your ears. I steer away from heavy barrels, even short ones.
Greg

 

[roysclockgun]

I am convinced that, as others have already reported, the hype created over many "new and improved" cartridges is there only because gun rag writers *need* for grist for the mill every month. One good example was when the 260Rem. was introduced not too long ago. I began reading in every gun periodical that the 260Rem. was the greatest thing introduced into the world of firearms since gunpowder! Please know that I am not knocking the 260Rem. here, but only using it as one example of a new cartridge that did not last very long. The 260Rem's older brother, being the 6.5x55mm Swede round has been around since the mid 1890s. That Swede round was much under-appreciated in the U.S., until the flood of surplussed Swede Model 1896 Mausers hit these shores. The distributors had some many of them, that one could find excellent examples at guns shows for $59! The Swedes never fought anyone with those Mausers and to a large degree many were in excellent condition, inside and out. For a while gunsmiths were busy "sporterizing" the Swede M96 and the 6.5x55mm round gained a following within the hunting community. The popularity and inexpensive price tag on those Swede rifles likely had a lot to do with the short lived fame of the 260Rem. Can one find a new rifle chambered for 260Rem. today? I have not recently seen one. The 260Rem. VS 6.5x55mm is just one example of how simply being a short action does not count for much.
The 308Win. "short stack" propellant column is a part of what may cause that round to be superior in accuracy, when compared to it's parent, the 30-06. However, the 30-06 still rules as being more adaptable to a wider range of game hunting, because of the larger propellant capacity, coupled with the 30-06 ability to handle heavier bullets.
If before hunters bought rifles, they considered issues like how rigid the action is, or how accurate at longer ranges the cartridge/rifle combo is, then the 30-30 lever action carbines would disappear from the big box store's shelves. In my opinion too many hunters read this months gun magazine and use what is written there as "knowledge" in making a decision on which firearm to purchase to take hunting when deer season opens next week.
I suppose it all boils down to what one wants and certainly not what one needs for any given hunting situation.
Steven L. Ashe

 

[Al in SC]

Quote by roysclockgun: "Can one find a new rifle chambered for 260 Rem. today?"

I am of the opposite opinion. I think the 260 is gaining in popularity rapidly. I know of no 6.5 x 55mm but am familiar with several owners of 260 Rem. in my area of the country. I also hear there will be several 260 offering added to the couple current offerings in factory 260 guns next year. I read of a number of custom 260 builds on the LRH & the Nosler webs but seldom read about a 6.5 x 55 build. My thoughts is the 260 is gaining in following and the 6.5 is pretty mush sitting at its current level of usage. It would be interesting to have some of the gun smith post there experience with popularity of the 2 calibers based on orders of custom rifles from them.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Here`s my take on short vs long actions.

It boils down to the rifle first and the cartridge second in terms of personal preference. Shorter actioned rifles will usually weigh somewhat less, while some shorter actioned rifles have shorter OALs.

Given the same barrel lengths, shorter actioned cartridges like the 300 WSM for example, can according to the Lyman 49th Edition, come to within 30-50 fps of the longer 300 Win Mag performance levels while consuming 8% to 10% less powder in the process. Some feel that is a plus.

Given the same barrel length as well, a shorter actioned 270 WSM out performs the longer 270 Win by about 200-250 fps. Some might feel that is a plus in the assurance dept, especially when it comes to longer ranged hunting. Extra speed always carrys with it more market appeal.

The 30-06 lengthed 375 Ruger (most assuredly the biggest cartridge homerun development in recent history), was designed to equal the performances of the longer 24" and 25" barreled and longer actioned 375 H&H rifles. It does so from a rifle with only a 20" barrel length, a shorter action, and from a rifle that is several inches shorter.

Do a little case design tweaking, some case shortening, increase the powder capacity by a few grains over the H&H and then waa-laa. You have a rifle several inches shorter such as a Ruger Alaskan, with a shorter action than the H&H, and with the same level of performance. Many feel that is a definite plus of a shorter action including me, as I own a 375 Ruger Alaskan.

Shorter actioned rifles and cartridges won`t fill the tags and freezers any better than will the longer ones. However, before the kill shots are made, a rifle must be carried and handled for many hours in many varying terrain conditions and circumstances.

Enjoyment while on hunts, is not just making a final kill shot. Enjoyment also means everything leading up to that final kill shot, which imo, should include using the best possible user-friendly rifle as well.

 

[Guy Miner]

Well put.

 

[backcountryhunter]

it would seem that cartridge choice is part of what makes us feel we have "personalized" our endeavors - If you "pencil" the charts in the Nosler manual it doesn't make all that much difference (on paper anyway) what short action cartridge one chooses - In the past few years the shooting world has changed completely with the new bullets and technology at our fingertips - All too often we hold opinions based on experiences and wisdom gained prior to game changing components - Example: I am thinking that a nice lightweight .308 with 22" tube shooting a 150 AccuBond (as long as the necessary components are in hand of course) should be all a hunter needs for anything that eats "vegetables" and probably more if some discretion is used - Does that mean I no longer hold my 325 WSM or 338 Win Mag in high esteem ? HECK NO !