viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19368 Well I went and shot my new to me 1917 Enfield 300 H&H and it was splitting the case right above the belt. Took it to my local gunsmith and he said the headspace was off and it was not safe to shoot. The gunsmith said he was not interested in trying to get the barrel off. It has the military barrel on it the been re cambered. I really like the rifle and would like to fix it with out spending a arm and leg. The guy I bought it from would have to make payments to me to give me my money back.Thank for any advise.
Shot new 300 H&H-not good
- Thread starter noslerfan
- Start date
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,933
- 5,128
The old military rifles can be pretty pricey when they require repair. I would heed the advice of your gunsmith, however, and avoid shooting it. This means that unless you are determined to build on the action, there is little comfort in trying to repair the rifle. Likely, the best advice I can give is to tell the original seller to initiate repayment. See if you can work out a reasonable schedule for the reimbursement. It is a rotten deal, but it does happen that we pick up duds on occasion. Good luck on sorting through the issue.
tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
- 2,019
- 2
The M1917 barrel is a BUGGER for removal. I had one get long in the headspace and was fixed, but had I known the risks inherent in doing so, I wouldn't have rolled the dice.
The only SURE way I've heard of to remove that barrel without chancing damage or twisting to the receiver is to destroy the barrel by making a relief cut right in front of the receiver ring to relieve the compression fit that was made at installation. That is likely why your smith refused to do it. It can be fixed, but you'll be looking at a new barrel to do so, I'm afraid.
The only SURE way I've heard of to remove that barrel without chancing damage or twisting to the receiver is to destroy the barrel by making a relief cut right in front of the receiver ring to relieve the compression fit that was made at installation. That is likely why your smith refused to do it. It can be fixed, but you'll be looking at a new barrel to do so, I'm afraid.
- Nov 4, 2004
- 24,339
- 6,643
Sounds like a tuff spot to be in.
I would go back to the original owner and start the reimbursement plan rolling.
Good Luck.
JD338
I would go back to the original owner and start the reimbursement plan rolling.
Good Luck.
JD338
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
Reimbursement in a case like this is kind of a bummer. I bet that he did not give you terms when you bought the rifle. I guess that I wonder if he knew about the headspace?
In any event, I guess that you are stuck and have to get the best terms that you can. Good luck with that. I have been there myself and hope it goes well.
In any event, I guess that you are stuck and have to get the best terms that you can. Good luck with that. I have been there myself and hope it goes well.
taylorce1
Handloader
- Jun 3, 2007
- 1,080
- 0
I don't know what you paid for it, but I'd re-barrell it back to .300 H&H. A lot of gunsmiths don't want to mess with a 1917 action but I know there are a few out there who will. IT&D will work on it and not cost you an arm and a leg. Just have him duplicate your military contour barrel and make it 24-26" long.
The two big problems most smiths don't want to mess with is cracking the receiver because of overtightened barrels and the square threads of the 1917 action. tddeangelo has it correct as I've talked with a few smiths that work on 1917/14 actions and they all say you need to cut a relief in the barrel where it butts up against the receiver. After the relief cut is made the barrels usually come right off by hand and the receiver is fine.
The two big problems most smiths don't want to mess with is cracking the receiver because of overtightened barrels and the square threads of the 1917 action. tddeangelo has it correct as I've talked with a few smiths that work on 1917/14 actions and they all say you need to cut a relief in the barrel where it butts up against the receiver. After the relief cut is made the barrels usually come right off by hand and the receiver is fine.
You could always neck the brass up to .338 and then back down to create a false shoulder and still shoot it. You'd have to back your dies off but a belted case is no different then a non-belted if you don't rely on the belt for head spacing. Because you were relying on the belt before it stretched the cases too much and they separated. The same thing happens with non-belted cases with excessive head space.
It's probably best not to shoot it and try to get your money back but you never know it may be a tack driver and the little bit of a pain to go through for reloading might be worth it. Just my .02.
It's probably best not to shoot it and try to get your money back but you never know it may be a tack driver and the little bit of a pain to go through for reloading might be worth it. Just my .02.
- Thread starter
- #8
Well it's a bad deal all the way around. I only paid $435.00 shipped for the rifle and scope. I contacted the seller and he said he had to wait and cash his 1st social security check to make a $200.00 payment. I beleive he had know idea about the head space. I'm just going to mark it up to experiance and wish him a good day. I can take the hit a lot easier than he can. I would like to re-barrel it and have it chambered to 300 H&H. I think I will get a hold of E.R Shaw and see if they will do it. Anybody here know of a gunsmith that would put a new barrel on a 1917 Enfield?
- Thread starter
- #9
Guy Miner
Master Loader
- Apr 6, 2006
- 17,503
- 4,713
Yes. Rick Freudenberg, Everett Washington. Former Jarhead. Superb rifle builder. He works on Mausers, Enfields/1917's - all sorts of cool old stuff. Or he'll build the latest and greatest. Precision work for sure. He doesn't work cheap, but he builds very good rifles:
http://www.freudscustomrifles.com/
Hopefully you can reach a satisfactory conclusion - I really liked the looks of your rifle in those photos you posted a while back.
Best of luck, Guy
http://www.freudscustomrifles.com/
Hopefully you can reach a satisfactory conclusion - I really liked the looks of your rifle in those photos you posted a while back.
Best of luck, Guy
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
The .300 H&H is a great caliber I have owned a couple or three in my life and am sorry that I ever sold all of them. My only solace is that I replaced the last one of them with a .340 Weatherby. The M1917 have always made good magnum conversion actions. Many gunsmith, including Griffin and Howe, have used the actions as a basis for full length magnum African calibers. It certainly can be done well.
The Enfield is a great rifle for a custom job in a big caliber, but is hugely expensive to rework. The aforementioned difficulty in barrel removal, conversion to cock on opening, smoothing out the action to better lines (including removing the "ears") are all good moves, but expensive at today's shop labor.
Unless you're talking serious money on a top drawer custom, I'd stop in my tracks, try to get something back from the guy who sold it to me and move on.
Unless you're talking serious money on a top drawer custom, I'd stop in my tracks, try to get something back from the guy who sold it to me and move on.
tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
- 2,019
- 2
GF1":24pb0x30 said:
If not mistaken, I believe the majority of those tasks are done in this case and he simply needs it rebarreled.
Given that and the OP's seeming interest in pursuing this to a rebarrel, I'd suggest talking to a barrel maker and/or smith with M1917 experience is not a bad idea. I have a sporter 1917 that was my dad's first hunting rifle. I had headspace issues with it and a smith fixed it without destroying the barrel or receiver, but I now know I rolled the dice big time on that one. For sentimental reasons, I'm eternally grateful, though.
My dad has suggested I could rebuild that rifle into something like a 35 Whelen or 300 H&H instead of buying rifles (as I am doing for both those rounds). I refuse to do so. It stays as he had it. Only change is I've put other scopes on it, and I've found they usually need to be shimmed. I will likely have a smith look at and/or correct the mounts to make sure all is properly aligned, and then put proper modern glass on it. It currently has a Weaver K4. Classic as heck, but for hunting I like my good optics.
BUT....all that said, my 1917 sporter WOULD be ripe for a custom project absent the sentimentality. If not for that, I could easily have it made into many things, as the receiver shaping and even the trigger replacement are all done. Simply needs the same work any other rifle would to have a new barrel installed. I believe the OP is in the same circumstance (i.e. rifle is altered, just needs a barrel).
Sorry to hear about the rifle, but if you wanna keep it, it sounds like a rebarrel is the way to roll with it. I imagine there are plenty of good smiths that won't run you ragged and a great barrel on that classic rifle would be a sweet ending and probably a better end product as well. You got the rifle for a good deal, so maybe a little investment wouldn't hurt too bad? Good luck buddy.
gerry
Ammo Smith
- Mar 1, 2007
- 6,697
- 1,289
I would go for a rebarrel as well, it looks like a nice gun otherwise it deserves a new life.
- Thread starter
- #16
I went to E.R Shaw weg page and they say they rebarrel 1917 Enfields. There prices are $115 labor and $170 for the barrel.The gentleman who sold me the rifle wants to give me $200 back. I feel bad for him because of his limited income but it's something he wants to do. So I think this is going to work out even better than I hoped.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 36,933
- 5,128
That sounds like a plan. Keep us all posted.
That does sounds like a good deal. With that feller being as genuine as he seems, that is good will at it's finest. I think you would do well with a Shaw. Haven't heard many bad things about them and they are reasonable.. Probably make a dandy rifle in the end! Good luck.
taylorce1
Handloader
- Jun 3, 2007
- 1,080
- 0
I'd find out the wait times from ER Shaw before I sent off a rifle to be rebarrel. Sometimes the cost isn't worth the wait. Last time I asked ER Shaw about some work they gave me a 12-14 month lead time. I paid a little more ($200 over Shaw) to IT&D and had it back in eight weeks. They may be better with their lead time at the moment as I haven't needed any work in a while.
